Butt Hook or Palm Rest?

RED RAIDER · Post by **RED RAIDER** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:07 am

My daughter is shooting an Anschutz 1903. In standing position she is struggling with elevation. Shooting consistently low. We have adjusted her hand and feet positioning to no avail. What is my next step, butt hook , palm rest, both? Or another suggestion?

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:29 am

Standing Position?

Do you mean that the vertical spread of her shots on the target is excessive, or that she struggles to point the muzzle at the right height for the target?

A butthook will offer a more secure and consistent fit if set correctly which may help shot stringing, and depending on the model may increase the vertical adjustment, to help with muzzle height.

RED RAIDER · Post by **RED RAIDER** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:55 am

We can't seem to get her grouping above the 7 ring @ 6oclock on a 50' target in standing position.

Kneeling and prone she is shooting mid 90s.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:57 am

SO ... she has the sights maxxed out trying to go up?

Think of her forward support hand as a fulcrum point ....

You can move the buttplate of the rifle up (lowering the actual butt of the rifle) and it will tilt the rifle up.
(A hook is always helpful, but it does not necessarily raise the bore)

--or--

You can add height to the front support to raise the bore ... in smallbore there is almost no limit to this ... to find a good height you can add shims to her front palmrest (duct taped on) to raise the bore. Remember you can have multiple buttplates or palmrests ... one for each position if so desired.

--or--

You can do both to make sure she is seeing straight thru the sights and to get her head in a more upright position.

COBelties · Post by **COBelties** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:32 am

One thing we just ran across, since we utilize club guns and equipment which regularly get swapped out, was a difference in rear sight elevation versus foresight elevation (some sight swapping was occurring). I only mention it because typically I dont see a sight maxed out elevation wise unless there is a height differential. This last gun had techro risers on it so we swapped out the front sight pillars for the next size smaller and the sight was balanced dead center. Just something to check.

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:56 pm

Joel is spot on. One thing that may not be obvious is that a lot of shooters click between positions. They are seeing differently, somehow. If she is not clicking up then that is a place to start, assuming position looks good. Sighted in for prone may not be sighted in for standing

RED RAIDER · Post by **RED RAIDER** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:36 am

redschietti wrote:Joel is spot on. One thing that may not be obvious is that a lot of shooters click between positions. They are seeing differently, somehow. If she is not clicking up then that is a place to start, assuming position looks good. Sighted in for prone may not be sighted in for standing

This isn't the problem here. She is trying to get sighted in after position change (prone to standing) you can only turn the dials so much.

RED RAIDER · Post by **RED RAIDER** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:37 am

has anyone tried this product? Will it work with the angled shock on a 1903?

http://www.10pt9.com/Rifle-Accessories/ ... -p231.html

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:16 am

I have made a couple similar for standing. If it's not high enough or angled you can easily add 1 by 4 or 2 by 4 to it. You can't be proud getting a gun to fit a shooter in my opinion

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:26 am

RED RAIDER wrote:has anyone tried this product? Will it work with the angled shock on a 1903?
http://www.10pt9.com/Rifle-Accessories/ ... -p231.html

That's kinda what you want. Your problem with this will be the angled stock of that rifle (why I like the 1912 & 1914 stocks)

From Champions Shooters Supply I have purchased a hard plastic rail block (for benchrest), trimmed it down, and then mounted a piece of 2x4 cut down to give a level surface for the palm rest. I don't have any pictures of the angled one, but I'm posting a picture of another I built for my daughter's rifle. (As Redshetti (Jim) said, it don't have to look pretty.)
Champions choice still has the individual rail fittings you can purchase for $20 ... I usually remove the screws and tap out for 5mm and get the appropriate length at Home Depot or Lowes.
The CC part can be ordered if you go on their website and search for the 4852 riser block, and then scroll down in the selection to "Palm Rest Rail Mount Anschutz". They also have scroll over pictures.
The palmrest pictured is just about the same width as a 2x4 ... sanded down makes is just a touch thinner.

(Then they can get creative in the decorations!)

My daughter's collegiate coach got her one of the Hi-Tec-Ro deals:
http://www.10pt9.com/Rifle-Accessories/ ... -p211.html
but it was too wide and was causing her hand to cramp ... she's gone back to the one pictured above.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:51 am

RED RAIDER wrote:
redschietti wrote:This isn't the problem here. She is trying to get sighted in after position change (prone to standing) you can only turn the dials so much.

What about a raiser block for the rearsight?

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:08 pm

Tim S wrote:What about a raiser block for the rearsight?

IMHO adding a riser block to the rear sight is about the worst thing you can do, especially in smallbore ... especially if the shooters makes the final. Way too much to go wrong or break messing with that. (remember this is a junior we're talking about here)

I'm (admittedly maybe a minority) a proponent of NOT changing the sights/risers in a final ... teach them to setup the gun & shoot with a fixed sight/riser setting in all positions. Seen too many finals shooters:
1) get the sights on caddy-whompus & start off hitting frames
2) breaking a mount screw w/ too much torque (adrenalin is running high even w/ 9 min prep&sighter period)
3) forget a front or back riser & skip bullets off the floor or over the target ... hit the target cables (bad news for all!)

Go for making your own palm rest at the correct height for that shooter in that position. One for each position is good.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:16 pm

redschietti wrote:Joel is spot on. One thing that may not be obvious is that a lot of shooters click between positions. They are seeing differently, somehow. If she is not clicking up then that is a place to start, assuming position looks good. Sighted in for prone may not be sighted in for standing

My opinion on Jim's note here:
Most shooters will need to change the zero for each position.
Sighting in for Kneeling will be different than for prone & from prone to standing.
You want their groups centered on that dot ... for each position.

RED RAIDER · Post by **RED RAIDER** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:48 pm

Thanks for the great advise.

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:05 am

Question, how far are you clicking between positions before you run out of clicks? If for some reason you are almost out of clicks going up in kneel and prone then a small riser added to the rear may do the trick and be usable in all three positions. I have run into that, needing diff riser heights, when mixing front and rear sight brands or when adding a tube to the front. I also feel the new rules benefit those who keep it simple

TargetTalk

Butt Hook or Palm Rest?

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