Fitting non-FWB sights to an FWB 2700 Alu?

[dc.fireman]

Hello all - I'm looking for some advice here for a prone rifle I've just purchased.

I have an FWB 2700 Alu rifle. I am hoping to use my existing sights with this rifle: An Anschutz front tunnel w/ Gehmann aperture, and a Phoenix Match rear sight, mounted on a Redfield styled adapter. I was initially assured that this would not be an issue, and that anything which fit the Anschutz rear, would also fit the FWB rear rail. This is not the case.

As for the front sight - I have a current two-step front sight base, atop which I mount the Anschutz tunnel w/ Gehmann aperture. I could probably have the 2700's bloop tube drilled & tapped to mount the front sight base; but I was looking for a simpler solution.

I also have an Anschutz extension rail, to which my scope is mounted (for the any sight portion of NRA matches). It appears to fit, but it's going to take a little 'persuasion' to set the rail (permanently) onto the receiver.

Has anyone else run into this issue? I have ZERO interest in buying the FWB sights for the rifle, especially after using the Phoenix/Anschutz combination.

Any ideas?

-tc

[justadude]

fireman,

I do not have an immediate solution but I can tell you that you are not crazy.

While the "big three" all specify they have an 11mm rail they are all also cut just a little bit different. Many of the European rear sights are cut with enough play so that they will go on any of the rifles. For front sights, you are out of luck.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34577

About halfway down this thread, Eric U posts a very nice discussion about dovetails and how they are all 11mm but they are not 11mm.

I gather from your post that the Redfield adapter simply does not fit. Most of those adapters were designed, if not simply made in the 1970s, early 1970s at that to quite tight tolerances to the existing Anschutz dovetail. If it does not fit the only thing I can think of would be to have a machinist take a few thousands off the inside of your adapter. That sounds easy on paper, finding someone who understands the problem and can fix it without destroying the adapter might be a little more of a trick.

As for your front sight base: From the sound of it you are using the older 14xx, 18xx prism block front sight base. The 19xx on Anschutz front sight mounted directly to a dovetail cut into the barrel. If you really want the two step feature then you are probably going to have to go the drill and tap route as you suggest. I have run into a case or two where someone has a thin riser block they install under the rear sight for 100 yards but to get that to work cleanly is just as much luck as it is skill. If you really do not want to click between distances you could also consider two different rear sights but that is spendy.

As for your extension rail: same solution as your Redfield adapter, find a machinist that understands the problem and can shave a few thousands off without destroying it.

Sorry, if there are easy answers here, I don't know what they are.

Good Luck
'Dude

[davidgoerndt]

I have a step base the fits the dovetail on my bloop tube. I purchased the step base several yrs ago from Gunsmithing, Inc. I'm not sure if they are still around, however. The step base tightens just like the front sight, no drilling or tapping was required.

[redschietti]

http://www.nordicmarksman.com/Riser-Set ... Speed.html

A walthr rear sight wont fit on an FWB either!


If you use a riser these can work. Need a fwb bottm and anshtz top?

[dc.fireman]

Red & 'Dude - thanks for the assistance! Here's what I've figured out so far:

I have two of the Anschutz Extension Rails. One of them fits the FWB rear receiver groove just fine. It's the one that I've left my scope attached to for the last three years. We'll refer to this as Rail No.1. I have a second one, which I've never used - it didn't fit very well - it probably could have been 'persuaded' on to the receiver, but I didn't want to get it stuck. We'll call this Rail No.2.

I mounted Rail #1 directly to the receiver, and left in on there, it will now act as my new receiver groove. I can mount the Redfield adapter directly to it, setting up my rear sight. When I need to switch to the scope portion of the match - I can just stack the two rails. My scope is still attached to Rail #2, and the two rails mate with each other perfectly.

This leaves me with the issue of the front sight. I've found a machinist, who will drill & tap the FWB bloop tube, for $10 per hole. I could've gone another route, and that would be to purchase a new .943" bloop tube collar from Champions Choice. At $33 plus shipping, this turners out to be slightly more expensive, and frankly the rifle doesn't have the 'clean' appearance of the factory bloop tube.

Thanks again for the suggestions - good advice all around!

-tc

[justadude]

Fireman,

I am reading your description and without seeing pictures am troubled by one aspect: It sounds like you are getting quite the stack on the back of the rifle, getting the sight line rather high for prone.

Two issues here really, most prone shooters have the sight line (line of vision from the eyeball to the target) pretty close to the barrel centerline. While they are not rare, very few top prone shooters use any riser blocks at all. This could get to be an issue toward developing a good position.

Next issue is purely mechanical, even thought the Phoenix sight has a good amount of vertical adjustment, can it go down far enough to compensate for being on a rail if the front sight is not also on some kind of riser? Without pictures this is just a thought about the way things are put together but it sounds like you have the rear sight on a riser while the front is not. Most stepped blocks are cut in such a way they would not accept a riser block so that means the front sight has to be right down on the barrel (or tube in this case).

IMHO: If you want to keep your front step base, the drill and tap is your best solution.

'Dude

[dc.fireman]

'Dude - yes, the front sight is on a two-step riser, and a medium height one at that. There is a great range of adjustment on the Phoenix sight. Once I get everything 'cleaned up' and installed, I'll upload a picture. For now, the only time there is a stack, is when the scope is mounted.

Thanks again!

-tc

[Tim S]

While they are not rare, very few top prone shooters use any riser blocks at all. This could get to be an issue toward developing a good position.

'Dude

'Dude,

applogies for the tangent, but I don't think that's entirely true at World Cup level, where quite a few prone finalists use, or have used raiser blocks; Henri Jungahaenel, Raijmond Debevec, Daniel Brodmeier, Marco De Nicolo, and Artur Aivazian are just a few. Very few shooters of wood-stocked rifles seem to use raiser blocks, but many who use alu stocks with shallow fore-ends do unless the position is built very high (think Matt Emmons or Valerian Sauveplane). I don't see many raiser blocks on Bleiker rifles, but the action is much taller than Anschutz, FWB, and Walther; certainly some recent Bleiker converts no longer use raisers which they did with "factory" rifles, but with no obvious change to their positions.

[Thedrifter]

'Dude - yes, the front sight is on a two-step riser, and a medium height one at that. There is a great range of adjustment on the Phoenix sight. Once I get everything 'cleaned up' and installed, I'll upload a picture. For now, the only time there is a stack, is when the scope is mounted.

Thanks again!

-tc

That would drive me insane having the Scope and Iron Sights at different height settings.
Just for good info the Anschutz 7020 on an 8mm riser block is the same height as my T-36 scope on its BKL Scope rings.

As for my FWB, I use and Anschutz 7020 sight on the rear and have done so with and without a riserblock.

For the front I have the Uptagrafft tube with the Centra Duo sightt. I would encourage not having the original sight tube drilled and taped, if you have a good machinist they should be able to trim some fat off the sight rail on the tube. Making it still useful for fore and aft sight adjustment, and keeping the sights at a more neutral elevation adjustment.

if it helps i do have the FWB Front Sight that i could part with?



gosh i wish i still had that BP :(

[swift220swift]

Bill Earnest of Earnest Shooting Products can make you the mounts needed. His phone is 570-797-4872. His catalog lists riser blocks to mount Anschutz sights on FWB.

[dc.fireman]

Drifter - looks nice! Thanks for the offer on the sight. I *think* I have the issue worked out.

Swift - I did try and contact ESP - never received a return phone call.