Winchester 52D -Still Competitive in Smallbore Prone?

[Stumpy1]

Hi All,

I am currently shooting Hi Power -across the course, mid-range prone, and long range prone.

I would like to add smallbore prone to my activities as I think it will teach me to be a better high power shooter, and because it looks like fun (and very challenging).

My question is -would a winchester 52 re-barreled with a Hart barrel and stocked in a Masterclass stock be competitive, or should I spring for something else?

Thanks Much in advance!

Frank

[mgbdietrich]

If it is accurate and you are comfortable with the Sitman stock you should be competitive. There are several shooters that still use 52's for prone, they are easy to load and can be made to shoot really well.

Give it a shot!

Morgen

[Andre]

One of the people I shoot with shoots a 52. He's one hell of a shot, sweeps targets left and right prone. I like 52's, easy to load and in general a fun rifle.

[corning]

Yes, It will be competitive.

[Trooperjake]

The 52 action is as good as any other target rifle.
With a good barrel and stock, you can't go wrong.
Just make sure you like the stock.

[Peter_Scant]

As this is for long range practice I would suggest getting the same stock as your long range stock.

[gwsb]

52 's are great actions for smallbore prone. The have a much shorter bolt throw than an Anschutz which makes for eaiser loading. One problem might be getting a good trigger. The trigger that is the best with a 52 was made by Karl Kenyon and he sadly passed away a few years ago. I wouldn't try to do smallbore prone with a stock Winchester trigger. A 52 with a good barrel done by a great gunsmith and a Master Class Stock would be a combination that would be limited only by your ability.

[Tim S]

I may be wrong on this, but I remember reading that Glen Dubis took a 52 to the '88 Seoul Olympics. from memory the Action was an E, with a C barrel (or vice versa), and all bedded in an Anschutz 1813 stock.

[Stumpy1]

Hi All,

Thanks very much for the very thoughtful responses -lots to think about.

With regard to the trigger, is the micro-motion trigger worked over a reasonable one?

Are there any aftermarket triggers out there for a rifle of this 'vintage'.

Thanks Again!!

Frank

[jps2486]

Wow, that brings back memories. We used 52Ds on our ROTC rifle team in college back in 1959. It was good then, and I'm sure, good now.

[dc.fireman]

Stumpy - I know of the rifle you speak of - It should be extremely competitive. A gentleman with whom I shoot matches loves his 52's; he has Kenyon triggers in most (if not all) of them, but that's simply his preference. The Micro-Motion trigger has a decent range of adjustment, and so long as the gunsmith who 'worked it over' was a competent one, it should be ok. The MasterClass stocks are by far the most useful, adjustable (outside of the aluminum space gun stocks), and beautiful stocks on the planet. Alex Sitman is renowned for his finishing touches. Hope this helps.

[mobarron]

Unless your 52 is a great shooter, it's not worth it. Your rifle plus $1,000 for a stock, $400-500 for a barrel and $400-500 for a Kenyon trigger (if you can find one) and you'll have a rifle that is not as easy to load and whose trigger is not as good as the current Anschutz or Walther rifles and that is worth about $1,000. That doesn't make sense when Anschutz M54s are selling at auction for $500. Sell your rifle and look for an Anschutz. Mike Barron

[Paul]

you'll have a rifle whose trigger is not as good as the current Anschutz or Walther rifles

Sorry to disagree with you Mr Barron but as far as I'm concerned, I've used a Kenyon for more than 6 years on my 1900 series Anschütz and I would never go back to a 5018.....

Paul

[mobarron]

I use a Kenyon in my Anschutz too and I like it. But they're hard to find and I don't know enough about altering the M52 triggers now that Kenyon is gone to suggest anyone. Mike Barron

[gwsb]

Interesting stuff...

Mike I would be interested in one of those 54 actions for $500. At least an 18 or 19. The 14 actions are too slow compared to a 18 or 52. And as I said I would not shoot a 52 with a Winchester trigger. Also another thing to consider is the history of the action. When the CMP took back the rifles from clubs they were in a wide range of conditions. Some almost unusable. They are selling them all in what ever condition, some without even bolts.

I disagree with you about building a prone gun from a 52. As I said I like them because they have a short bolt throw and are easy to load. Also for prone only, you can make a rifle without some of the bells and whistles used in 3 p that can be expensive, like butt hooks. And you can have a gun that fits you perfectly without adjustment.

Sadly even though Karl was in my opinion a magician with metal, even he could not make a trigger or rifle that would not wear out and most of his triggers were made many years or decades ago. So it is getting harder to find one and would be impossible to get parts for it.

[Tim S]

Out of interest what is wrong with the Winchester trigger? The 52 wasn't common here in the UK. Is it just weight (i.e. a relatively heavy release`), limited adjustment, or mechanical issues?

[r_zerr]

The Winchester 52 C, D, and E, are excellent actions, and have a very hard outer case-hardening that will allow them to be shot for a very, very, very long time, with little wear. Probably longer than an Anschutz. The downsides to the 52 is that they do not have as fast of a lock time as the 1600, 1800, and 2000 series model 54 based Anschutz. For prone, this is not an issue. Mounting a scope can be an issue, because the original receivers were not drilled and tapped for scopes, and the bolt handle can interfere with many of the larger diameter eyepieces on modern scopes. With proper scope base, rings, a purpose built scope base and an adjustable cheek-piece, this should not be an issue. Drilling the receiver for scope mounting requires knowledge and proper tools...see my comments about the case-hardening above.

The Winchester micro-motion triggers are very good and can be reworked to improve them. They are very good if set up correctly to begin with, but can made even more-so by some re-work. Karl did them, and I have done them. Karl told me they were as good as his triggers, but preferred building a new trigger for the income and that fact that it was his. ( I do not know if they are as good as, but those were his comments.) I have 6 of Karls triggers, and have looked over, or worked on a few that were not mine. The most recent was 2 years ago by a person who claimed to have had over 100,000 rounds on his and thought it was worn out because of the way it varied. I took it apart, cleaned it (not needed), inspected, reassembled, re-set the sear engagement and sent it back to him. He was amazed that it felt so good. I did nothing besides adjust it. The Kenyon triggers are top notch, but there is nothing wrong with the standard trigger aside that it is just not as nice as a Kenyon.

Parts can be made for Karls triggers. These require hand fitting, proper tool steel, and hardening. I have done this too, but only for modifications to other guns....not because they were broken.

I shot next to Karl for many years at Western Wildcats rifle match and gained a lot of knowledge and insight to the mans work, which is still unmatched. I only try to mimic the master.

If the rifle you are looking at is well set up for prone shooting (scope and irons, good barrel, adjustable stock), it stands to be as competitive in that game as anything else that can be found.

Ron Zerr
my 10 cents worth of hands on.

[Tim S]

Ron,


thank you that was a very imormative post. I got to shoot a 52 (I think a C) at Bisley a few years back. The trigger reminded me a lot of the BSA Internationals; single stage, crisp, and very short. I couldn't quite get used to the 90 degree bolt lift though.

[gwsb]

Ron that is interesting stuff about the Winchester triggers. I would say that you are hording Karl's triggers though, maybe you could turn loose of a couple of them.

Didn't Karl make the triggers for the 52 International or is that the same as the E? I used Karl's triggers on a 52 prone gun and a 1413 Anschutz and really liked them. As you said the newer Anschutz actions are lightning fast and I didn,t see a reason to get a Kenyon for that.

[r_zerr]

I wouldn't say that I was hoarding his triggers...I would say that I was diligent enough to put them on my target rifles, and I use them.....hoarding means not using. Thats my story and I am sticking to it!

Bill Neff is the person you really want to talk to about Winchester 52 variants, at least C,D,&E, but probably the others as well. My recollection is that, yes, the Winchester 52's came with Karls triggers, and that was one of the "hold-ups" in cranking them out. Karl made his triggers one at a time, by hand. A hack saw, a file, a drill press, stones for polishing and Oxy-acetylene torch for silver soldering and heat treating. The Winchester engineers tried to come in and tell him how he "should" do it and he sent them away.

Stocks, if I recall correctly, on the 52E were combinations of Freeland stocks, as well as some put on by Herb Hollister ( a real gentleman, from days gone by ).

-ron zerr