Turbo Action?

[KIM]

Hi all,
Has any one put a Turbo action in there prone rifle?
The Benchy world seem to have high wraps with these. love to hear any coments on them.
Kim.

[Tim S]

Does the Turbo come in Right Bolt Right Port configuation? A lot of BR actions are Right Bolt Left Port, which would be unsuitable for prone. I think a few US shooters have built smallbore rifles around the Hall BR action, one is Bill Burket, who occasionally posts on this forum.

[KIM]

When I Googled Turbo Action I found there Web page and they come in how ever you want eg; RB & RP

[Eric U]

You'd be hard pressed to find a good trigger for one. They are made to accept Remington style triggers. While the BR guys seem to love their Jewel triggers, they are simply unacceptable for position or prone shooting. I tried getting a Jewel trigger to work on a 300m rifle and it simply wasn't up to the task.

Eric U

[mgbdietrich]

I know Kent Reeve has a turbo prone rifle, their loading port is pretty small and somewhat hard to load from what I have heard, but I believe it can be relieved to make it easier.

I shoot a 10X action in a prone stock, it needed some TLC to be competitive. If that AMU guy would start producing his action we would have it all.....hahaha

Morgen

[justadude]

@Eric U: You note the Jewel trigger was not up to the task on a 300m gun. What was it that was less than ideal?

'Dude

[Eric U]

Many things wrong with the Jewel for this application:
-Single stage. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I've done all my shooting with a two-stage trigger.
-Fixed trigger shoe, way too far back in the action to be useful for a prone or position shooter. Tried it with a spacer glued onto it but that just didn't work that well.
-Inconsistent trigger pull-weight. May be good enough for shooting off a rest, but is murder for shooting out of a sling. Benchresters love how low of a weight they can go, but I just couldn't get a consistent weight. Sometimes with creep and sometimes without.

Eric U

[justadude]

Thanks Eric.

Interesting observations considering the marketing hype.

'Dude

[KIM]

Has anyone put a good 2 stage trigger on the Turbo?
as for the loading, on their web page the Turbo Action Pics show that the action has now a cutout at the back of the action, it looks like it should be beter to load.
Kim

[kevin nevius]

Kim:

I thought I might chime in (just some more opinion!)

I have built and barreled / tested many rifles with Turbo actions (and the similar Winchester 52 based BR actions). There are fundamental issues an action must address - like rigidity and good ignition, but most of the features espoused in the BR world are not significant contributors to accuracy potential (like three lugs, 6 o'clock ignition, .750" tennons etc....). Any quality action can be made to produce exceptional accuracy IMHO, as long as the rigidity and ignition issues are addressed. Bedding (the interface between the action and stock, and the transmission of vibration) is also equally important.

The real accuracy potential of any rifle (as a system) lies in the barrel. how it is setup, the overall quality of it, and the tune established during testing (which includes the manipulation of mass). A great barrel, set up properly, will be competitive - regardless of the action used (as long as these fundamentals are there).

There is generally a lot of misinformation out there, most of it propagated by BR forums (one in particular). I can only tell you that after years of building rifles, I cannot quantify nor verify any of these "theories" espoused as fact.

Then there are those factors that are vital to accuracy in position (something unique to our sport).........like trigger quality, loading port position, weight / balance. For us, these issues can be more important than any raw accuracy gain provided by any Turbo based action (real or perceived gains, that is). For us, raw group size will always be about 20% mechanical error (equipment), and 80% human error (our ability to hold and break good shots consistently). I am certainly not saying that we need zero mechanical error from the system - any gains in equipment accuracy are still very real - its just that training, and refinement in position is probably where most of our improvement lies (even for the very upper level Olympic athletes).

I know you probably already know this stuff, and I apologize if I am stating the obvious. You asked a great question though, I hope this added to the conversation.

All the very best,

kev

[justadude]

Kevin brings up some interesting points, boiled down: just because an action is a good BR action does not mean it will be a good smallbore prone and or 3P action.

I have seen this discussion tossed around before, that smallbore shooters should start building their rifles or using other accuracy enhancing techniques shown to improve performance for the BR community. In prior years the discussion has often ended, "Someone tried that and it did not really lead to improved scores or more trips to the podium."

Now that was prior to decimal scoring in prone. One thing that I have noticed is a complete change in my attitude toward the results of a shot. Prior to decimal scoring, sure I zeroed to shoot center shots but did not get too upset at a scratch ten. Now with decimal scoring in prone, each and every shot has to be the best I can possibly make it. If a shot is less than a 10.4 I know I HAVE to do better. Perhaps, and I am just speculating here, now with decimal scoring the mechanical accuracy of the rifle will have a greater impact and at least for 60 shot prone with decimal scoring BR practices in rifle building would start to have a measurable effect.

'Dude

[dschaller]

I agree totally about the effect of decimal scoring. It will cause an unlimited development war that will cost shooters millions of dollars. Unlike airguns, which can put ten shots thru one hole, no .22 can currently perform at that level. However, every shooter loses points unless his/her gun can do that, so there will be a very expensive effort to shrink .22 group sizes due to this stupid rule. Could have been easily avoided if they left the ten ring alone, and just used decimal scoring for outside the ten ring, which would have eliminated the stupid results we have now where a winner shoots a 623 or some other random number. What was wrong with 600 being a perfect score? What spectator new to the sport can grasp why 654 is a perfect score?

[KIM]

Yes I agree with what you all say,
I have an 1813 that is over 31 years old, in a Walther anatomic stock & I don't no how much work it has done in the past, I put down as much as I can each week, she still holds a nice group for now, one day she will start letting me down , if I was to put in the best Barrel, action & trigger that I can afford, because I love my stock, then if I have got some of the best gear at the time, then it is down to me (the nut behind the butt). What I do like looking at the Turbo action is that it is shorter, the loading port is close to the trigger, so I am guessing I would have to break position less to reload compaired with my 1813. the only other one is the racer with the loading port is straight above the trigger but to many moving parts in them for me. Or would I be better off just getting a good (out of the box) rifle eg; Walther KK300 in an Anatomic stock?

Kim.

[Moore]

Having been a benchrest shooter for most of the last twenty five years, Id like to weigh in on this topic with my opinions... I spent a full year with a Turbo Action mostly experimenting trying numerous lots of ammo,different barrel cleaning methods and with & without a barrel tunner. I have also shot my share of position and loved to shoot prone once upon a time.. Bottom line the Turbo Action is small,if one has large fingers it would be very tough to load prone, it was hard for me to load off a bench. I shot almost daily and the action I had was very easy to scratch and I went through a few firing pins. The sandy grit from the priming compound was very abrasive to the action. Most benchrest shooters including myself are very meticulous about gun care and I felt my rifle wore to fast in too many places.. Its accuracy was on par with about the best rifles out there in the beginning... With the rougher handling of some prone shooters down on the ground with dust at times blowing in ones face and a bump here and there from time to time, My advise would be,treat it like a baby if you decide to go this route and get a good machinist to open the port up if you have large fingers..

[mobarron]

For those wondering about triggers for benchrest or Remington actions I suggest looking at "Extreme Shooting Supplies". They advertise a 2-stage trigger with moveable shoe that fits Remington 700 actions. The shooters I know who have one speak highly of them. Mike Barron

[Tim S]

Mike,

do you know how low the CG trigger can be set? When the topic of BR actions for smallbore was last raised a year or two ago, I rmember looking up the CG trigger. If I recall correctly (and it has been a few years, so I may be quite wrong) but the lowest weight for the CG was much heavier than is possible with an Anschutz/FWB/Walther trigger.

[HWN1011]

Mike,

do you know how low the CG trigger can be set? When the topic of BR actions for smallbore was last raised a year or two ago, I rmember looking up the CG trigger. If I recall correctly (and it has been a few years, so I may be quite wrong) but the lowest weight for the CG was much heavier than is possible with an Anschutz/FWB/Walther trigger.

Trigger weight looks to be from 10oz so 284g for the CG Trigger. Not low enough shame.

[MarkTrew]

I agree with Eric's statement on the various triggers mentioned. One solution might be finding a used Kenyon. Many smallbore shooters, including myself, like them for prone.

Mark Trew