Proposed CMP Rule Changes for Service Pistol

[Orpanaut]

While I was waiting out the lightning delay at Perry on revolver day, another shooter showed me an email from the CMP with a list of proposed rule changes. There were several of them but the one that really stood out to me was an expansion of the definition of "service pistol".

Under the new rules, the GI-style M1911 and M9 would no longer be the only legal pistols for CMP service pistol matches (EIC, President's 100, NTT). The matches would be opened to a wide range of pistols - Glocks, SIGs, XDs and others - and would also allow new calibers like .40 S&W, 10mm Auto, and .45 GAP. I think the CMP would also allow revolvers.

First question: Is this an accurate summary of what the CMP is considering? I don't have a copy of their email for reference.

Second question: How likely is this to happen?

Third question: What do you think about this?

My concern is that making the rules too broad would destroy the unique character and challenge of the CMP matches. I think that if the CMP wants to move in this direction, a few essential elements should be preserved:

1) A minimum 4 pound trigger pull.

2) Jacketed round nose or truncated cone (for the .40 shooters) ammo only.

3) Iron sights only.

I've been seriously thinking about getting a Beretta ball gun but if the rules are changing I'd rather save some money and upgrade my Glock instead.

[jackh]

http://thecmp.org/Competitions/Forms/Pr ... hanges.pdf

I suggested they only change to include beavertailed 1911 45 guns and relax most of the cosmetic details on pistols like contoured front sight dovetail, and spur hammers.

For other pistols, develop "games" like they have for Garand, Rattle Battle, etc.

[gulliver62]

I'm fine with most all of it.
Bring more people into the game.
Anybody who wants to bring a Glock and compete against the experienced shooters who are using an accurized M9 or 1911 may have at it.

We can preserve ourselves into non-existence.

[Mike M.]

I'm fine with most all of it.
Bring more people into the game.
Anybody who wants to bring a Glock and compete against the experienced shooters who are using an accurized M9 or 1911 may have at it.

That's how I look at it, too. The only real threat would be a SiG P210...and the triggers on those are too light.

[6string]

I'm reminded a bit of a match type I saw in England called, (I believe), Classic Pistol. This was probably back in the 1970s....
It was a Bullseye style match (sort of, really Int'l Centerfire), using any service pistol that had been issued prior to Armistice Day.
People shot Webleys, Lugers, Colt 1911s, etc.
It was fantastic!

I do think the list of this proposed change should include as many of the classic service pistols as possible. I'd love to use a Luger. After all, the .30 cal. "American Eagle" Luger was issued in limited quantities to US troops....

Jim

[Murph]

I think by opening up the rules it will significantly increase the entries. I am all for it.

[Ttgoods]

Kinda ridiculous the service pistol matches don't include current service pistols such as the sig 226, Socom 1911s, or HK.

I am against calibars other than 45acp, 38 Spl, or 9mm.

The service pistol match should be any service pistol past or present with iron sights. The idea of buying a 3000 hard ball gun when an off the shelf range officer is almost as good is just silly.

[Orpanaut]

I agree that the revised rules, if adopted, should increase turnout for the matches. There aren't many shooters outside of the Bullseye community who have a CMP-compliant, accurized M1911, but there are plenty who have a tuned .45 1911 with adjustable sights that could be competitive in an EIC match. In fact, the new rules would probably reverse the trend of the 1911 losing ground to the Beretta because a "modernized" 1911 is more comfortable to shoot than the classic .45 hardball gun.

I also think that some of the newer 9mm pistols that aren't normally seen at Bullseye matches - e.g. the Glock 34, the Springfield XD(M) 5.25 and the CZ P-09 - could get new shooters to Distinguished even if they don't group well enough at 50 yards to compete at the highest levels. You don't have to shoot 90+ on the long line to leg if you can shoot well in sustained fire. (The P-09 isn't on the current list of service-style pistols but it should be.) There should also be shooters trying for a "two-fer" by using the same revolver for NRA Distinguished Revolver and the CMP Distinguished Pistol badge.

Pity the poor referees who will have to check dozens of pistol types instead of just two, though. There are bound to be some problems as everyone adapts.

[ghillieman]

The EIC matches should stay true to the "Service Pistol" catagory.

The rules should be relaxed to a 1911 or 92 pistol but allow minor alterations. The grip safety and spur hammer of the 1911 needs to go. Most shooters have some sort of 1911, but hardly anyone has one that meets all the requirements of the current EIC rules.\

Remove the specific ammunition requirement. Rifle EIC AR shooters are not required to shoot 62gr FMJ across the course. Lets change the rule to any safe ammunition.

As far as bringing in any gun, I dont agree with that. It should be military service pistol, not police. Allow sigs, they are issued. Allow 1911's with more modern features, those are issued. But bringing in any gun, seems to me, to be getting too far away from what this game is about.

Hell, or just leave it like it is and add another game with all these proposed changes. I dont care, but I know one thing, accuracy is the name of this game, and you will still have to dump a bunch of money in those guns to get 10 ring 50 yard groups.

I see $3000 Glocks in the future.

[RMinUT]

You can run any pistol you want in NRA Centerfire but there is not much participation there because once a "tactical shooter" has to shoot one handed at 50 yards they all run back to their plates at 7 yards. Nobody wants to work at this stuff anymore.

I agree that some change is needed but they are proposing too many changes to service pistol. I thought it was interesting they didn't propose allowing ANY 1911 to be legal, yet they want to allow a Ruger Redhawk?? To me they just looked at making any popular pistol legal while forgetting all about what the intent of the match is about. I guess they just want participation at any cost.

Not that is it matters but I got my badge 13 years ago because I wanted to earn it. People just don't see that anymore, most just shoot as fast as they can, I guess they feel like a SEAL then?

[Distinguished Rick]

Service pistol should mean just that. The US military does not issue Glocks, therefore they shouldn't be allowed. I am "old school" and went distinguished in 1986 shooting a 1911. It will cheapen the DPS badge in my opinion.

[Ttgoods]

They should allow any 1911 with iron sights, and the Sig 226. By the current definition 1911's in service with the Marines and Special Forces would be disallowed. That is just silly.

Beaver Tail, extended safeties, slide groves, none of that stuff makes the guns shoot a target more accurately and yet thousands of people are prevented from competition because their guns don't meet specs not used since 1983.

RT

[dschaller]

I agree it is stupid that the Range Officer isn't allowed. Other similar .45s should also be allowed. As stated, the grip safety, accessory rails, and hammer style have no effect on how hard it is to shoot. On the other hand, I hated to see the allowance of hand loaded ammo. Changing the requirement to not require ball (230gr for .45, etc.) bullets would be another huge step down the steep slope to turning the match into a bullseye centerfire match - hey, why not allow red dot sights and .22s?

[Ttgoods]

Factory ammo keep, just losen up on the idea that some how a customized 1911a1 with adjustable sights was a service pistol.

Sig 226, any 1911 with iron sights, and the Barreta.

You you realize how many people would participate in two gun 600 matches if they could bring a revolver and their Kimber, Springer or what have you to shoot.

Knock out a little match on Saturday morning it would be popular.

[trulyapostolic]

The service pistol match should be any service pistol past or present with iron sights. The idea of buying a 3000 hard ball gun when an off the shelf range officer is almost as good is just silly.

There's no requirement for a custom built hardball gun. Change the grip safety, and whatever else is required, on a Range Officer and fire away if it meets your expectations.

[trulyapostolic]

The EIC matches should stay true to the "Service Pistol" catagory.

Hell, or just leave it like it is and add another game with all these proposed changes. I dont care, but I know one thing, accuracy is the name of this game, and you will still have to dump a bunch of money in those guns to get 10 ring 50 yard groups.

The only true way to know if these proposed changes are successful is to add a match. If people flock to it then there's the answer. If not, then we have a few 'squeaky wheel' whiners that are trying to decide for the majority. I'm strongly in favor of leaving the current match as it is.