stance angle?

toddinjax · Post by **toddinjax** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:40 pm

After doing some self testing I realize that the 90 degree stance angle of elite AP shooters would not be so awkward if I wasn't looking through regular street eyeglass frames. With these glasses, I have to turn my head so far that it's neither stable, natural nor comfortable. However it seems that if I had shooting frames that allowed me to easily position the center of the lens off to the right, it's not an uncomfortable angle/position at all. Could it be a common bond among folks that have difficulty holding this 90 degree angle that many or most are wearing "street" eye glasses with a fixed position?

Out of curiosity when did this stance come into common practice, and what were the average scores when shooters stood 45 degrees compared to now?

Thanks to all responders, todd.

dronning · Post by **dronning** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:38 pm

Todd, not an answer but a question.

Are you looking out of the corner of your eye?

I ask because you mentioned you can't turn your head comfortably far enough in this stance to see out your normal glasses. It seems to me that looking out the corner of your eye would lead to eye strain during the course of the match.

Just a thought.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:12 pm

Stance has always been kind of a "trendy" thing. Sooo...if you feel more comfortable at 45 degrees...do it. It will make no real difference in your scores, especially if your uncomfortable current stance doesn't work.

I suspect the current 90 degree stance came about as .45 shooters attempted to ameliorate the effects of recoil. Not a lot to do with Free or Air.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:31 pm

Not a hard and fast 'rule', but your head should be no more than 15 degrees sideways to straight ahead. To reduce strain in the eye muscles, the more in line, the better.

There have been shooters using front on and shooters using 90 degrees and shooters using somewhere in between as long as I have been around competition pistol (about 50 years) and I have seen 'duelling' scores of 300/300 from all these stance angles.

Back in the '60s the USSR coaches were producing medal winners in the 50m and 10m events using the 80 to 90 degrees stance - others copied.

Unless a shooter has a neck problem such a spondylitis, chances are a few sessions with a sports physiotherapist can get the head to rotate to the desired position without too much trouble - even for us greybeards.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:33 pm

I suspect the current 90 degree stance came about as .45 shooters attempted to ameliorate the effects of recoil. Not a lot to do with Free or Air.

The general stance offset used by most ISSF shooters would more likely be somewhere between 10 to 40. Moving towards 0 places greater requirements on the musculoskeletal skeletal system over 60 shots than is needed.
Moving further to 45 restricts balance and CG needs. Roves explanation makes sense.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:12 pm

"There have been shooters using front on and shooters using 90 degrees and shooters using somewhere in between as long as I have been around competition pistol (about 50 years) and I have seen 'duelling' scores of 300/300 from all these stance angles."

Hey, Spencer....I think we old farts know stuff the kids are still trying to figure out. Your experience is the same as mine.

toddinjax · Post by **toddinjax** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:02 pm

I suspect the current 90 degree stance came about as .45 shooters attempted to ameliorate the effects of recoil. Not a lot to do with Free or Air.

If I may derail my own thread…do I understand correctly that if an AP does have a bit of recoil, that it makes no difference in the POI of the shot, that what little recoiled you feel is generated after the pellet has left the barrel?

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:10 pm

We're not talking about one shot here. What is wanted is quicker recovery from the MUCH heavier .45 recoil for faster followup shots.

To specifically answer your question, in my experience, any movement you see from an air pistol is caused by YOU.

deadeyedick · Post by **deadeyedick** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:27 pm

There is definitely an age component to stance angle. I started pistol shooting in 1975 and had no trouble standing at right angles to the target, however there has been a need to reduce that position by about 10 degrees per decade in order to avoid age related problems making things too uncomfortable.
Finding the "sweet spot " for any given age / balance / comfort is the challenge ...... and the reward.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:22 am

The current wisdom is that a sideways on stance is the best purely in terms of the theoretical body mechanics for shooting air and free pistol. But of course you can't ignore actual body mechanics as all shooters are different (something even some top coaches seem to overlook). So find a comfortable position that's as close to sideways on as you can acheive and still feel comfortable and then shoot it. You may find that 15 - 30 degrees off is all you can manage, which is fine. You can also work to improve your flexibility which might mean you can move the position, unless like lots of us age has made things seize up a bit.

Andre · Post by **Andre** » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:52 pm

My stance is either in-line with the target or a with my back turned towards it just a hair. I don't find it uncomfortable at all, although my Knobloch frames could stand to go a little further towards the right....

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:46 am

That's nice, but here's what "The Boss" has to say:

http://pilkguns.com/c12.shtml