New to the Forum and Not Shot Competition Yet

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:00 pm

Hello,

I have been practicing at 25 yds to join a Bullseye league at a local club for about a year now and reload with cast. At 59 it seems my eyes are one of my deterrents.

I have a Burris Fastfire on my Browning Buckmark 22, a Springfield 1911 in 9mm with another Burris red dot, and am now looking for a 45 to install a red dot on. My current 45's are a Dan Wesson Valor 5" and S&W commander length 1911 (looking to trade for a bullseye gun).

I don't want to put a red dot on my Dan Wesson and use it for competition. Would prefer to have a competition only gun.

I've primarily practiced slow fire and frankly am not impressed with my scores. Occasionally I can score low 80's with my 22 and have never scored better than a high 60's with my Dan Wesson. I will give myself a break here because a lot of practice with the 45 has been indoors with iron sights.

Anyway, hello from NE Pennsylvania.

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:35 pm

Welcome to the TT forum - you've fallen in with a good group of people who collectively have a tremendous amount of knowledge of Olympic/International and Bullseye shooting and are generous and willing to share.

However, don't complain about your age here - there are a lot of, say, very mature members on this forum. I know performance tends to drop off over time (trust me - I know), but good shooting glasses help. I'm talking Knobloch, Champion, etc, not amber Ray-Bans. I use open sights, tried a red dot and didn't like it, and I'll be 62 this summer.

Roger

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:27 pm

OK, here's some advice from an old fart.

Glasses--must focus on infinity to use a Red Dot; forget anything but single focus. If using iron sights, the glasses must focus on the front sight; that's different from Red Dot glasses (again single focus).

Practice--get yourself a match grade air pistol so you can practice at home and learn to shoot iron sights. You cannot teach yourself to shoot using a .45, it hides too many faults in your technique. You can also compete in AP matches where the big boys shoot.

Get rid of the nine mm. Trade it for a decent .45 wad gun.

ChipEck · Post by **ChipEck** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:11 pm

Welcome. I am 59 and started bullseye last winter. I went red dot because of my eyes. Slow fire is almost always my weakest target. I will shoot rapid fire betweens 80s and low 90s. Timed fire in mid to upper 80s. Slow fire 65-75. I can shoot slow fire in the low 80s if I shoot it fast, but it scares the c@@@ out of the shooters on either side of me when I do. :-) Easy to say but hard to do...you need to clear your mind, concentrate and wait for the best shot. No sin in slow fire to stop, lower pistol and think about it if the shot is not there for you.

Chip

Misny · Post by **Misny** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:01 am

Welcome to the sport. I think you are looking at equipment in a good way. You may want to consider the Springfield Armory Range Officer for a .45. A trigger job and good red dot should do the job. Get as high a quality red dot as you can afford. I still think that the Ultra Dot 30mm or 1" tube scopes are a good option for the money. If you can afford it, one of the newer You might find that some of the lesser quality red dots won't stand up to punishment. You want a red dot that is light weight, has good optics with little parallax and click adjustable windage and elevation screws. Aimpoints are expensive, but well liked. Get prescription eye glasses, made for shooting that let you focus either on the front sight or the red dot of a "scope". The glasses should have safety lenses and be used for shooting only. Most optometrists will work with you if you let them know exactly what you need. I took my prescription and sent it off to Randall for shooting glasses, but there are other brands. Shooting glasses, like the Randall brand, allow one to change the lenses. Therefore you can have one set of frames and different lenses for different purposes.

izzyjim · Post by **izzyjim** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:11 am

Welcome to the group, but stop putting off shooting on the bullseye league.
Join the club/league, and take advantage of the advice & encouragement that you will find there.

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:49 am

However, don't complain about your age here - there are a lot of, say, very mature members on this forum.

LOL, not really complaining just informing for perspective :) I have heard unfortunately that Bullseye is not as active as it used to be as the young folks go more for the action shooting.

I've been told that Bullseye allows handicapped help to some extent; I have been shooting sitting because I have a permanent injury to my right leg (which would be my front leg) which doesn't allow me to put much weight on it for very long. I can walk short distances and use a cane. I fractured my femur just above my knee in 2012. This is truthfully one of the reasons I have put off joining.

I have a "Loaded" model Springfield 1911 in 9mm having a trigger job right now. It has been mounted with a Burris Fastfire red dot - a very small and light sight, but was useless without the trigger job.

The suggestion about the SA Range Officer has been made to me but I would like to find a used Les Baer instead. Call me a snob for holding out for a snazzier gun.

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:07 pm

Oh, I did most of my learning grip with a 22 Browning before I bought a 45.

The Buckmark does not have a bad trigger but if that were cleaned up a bit I suspect I would score higher. I believe concentration is another area that needs improvement. Rather than put the pistol down, I will hang on and pull the trigger probably when I shouldn't have.

I practice iron sights with a cheap paper plate with a 2" circle drawn in the middle. With my 45 often my 1st shot is smack dab in that circle but from there the quality of my shots goes downhill. What to make of that?

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:13 pm

chiltech500 wrote: With my 45 often my 1st shot is smack dab in that circle but from there the quality of my shots goes downhill. What to make of that?

It often happens to me too, especially with the first gun I shoot during a session. I think it's because I don't anticipate the trigger. Usually, I bring it up and while I'm looking at the sights I get genuinely surprised when it goes off. I just wish I knew how to bottle that. Practice makes perfect, but I lose the Zen of the trigger pull once I've started thinking about it.

Roger

mr alexander · Post by **mr alexander** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:06 am

chiltech500,

Welcome aboard! One thing I would like to suggest to you as a beginning

Bullseye shooter; get a copy of Gil Hebard's book titled, "The Pistol

Shooter's Treasury". Gil was one of the all time great Bullseye shooters

from the late 1940's until the early 70's. His publication contains

submissions from some of the other well known shooters of the past,

along with his own notations. Each person describes in his own words the

actual techniques they use to shoot the good scores. Topics include:

Stance, Grip, Sight Alignment, Breathing, and Trigger Control along with

some discussion of the mental aspects of the sport. Available in a soft

cover format, Champions Choice has them in stock. You can reach them

at: 1-800-345-7179. The cost with shipping included? Expect a bit of

change from your $20 bill! When reading through it, the pictures inside

will show cars and clothing styles from an era long past; do not let this

dishearten you. Remember, the fundamentals of Bullseye Shooting are

TIMELESS! Both easy to read and easy to understand, Gil's book was of

great benefit to me when I first started back in 1978. Good luck and good

shooting!!

GunRunner · Post by **GunRunner** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:48 pm

you can also read many other articles by past and present champions as well as the amu and marine pistol team on bullseye encyclopedia.com

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:40 am

chiltech500 wrote:
I practice iron sights with a cheap paper plate with a 2" circle drawn in the middle. With my 45 often my 1st shot is smack dab in that circle but from there the quality of my shots goes downhill. What to make of that?

This is true for a lot of people. Truth is, in bullseye, triggering is almost everything. Meaning that your hold is what it is on any given day, and your triggering is usually where you fail in execution when you are thinking too much about the shot.

Usually it is a hesitation, or an anticipation of the gun going bang, that causes you to either stop your trigger, or change your grip on the gun.

There are also many good free articles on this web site. A lot of top shooters saying essentially the same thing, with different words, and originally in different languages. Every once in a while, something clicks, and you learn something new, Only to forget it again, when you are in a competition under stress. :-)

Try copious dry firing followed by lots of ball and dummy drills to get your triggering smooth and consistent, and stop your shot anticipation.

The paper plate is a good thing. The only issue I can see with it, is if you are older, you may find, when you move to shooting on a real target, the sights will disappear into the bull. You might want to think about using a sub six hold, when you are shooting irons so that your sighting area is black sights against the white on a real target, as well as for your practice.

Oh, and start going to matches soon. Matches are the best practice.

ScottSimmonds · Post by **ScottSimmonds** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:32 am

Ditto on the matches. I learn every time I shoot in a match. Nobody cares how well you shoot. Show up and join the line. Learn from mistakes and keep on going.

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:21 pm

Thanks for all the great replies. I have read around a bit including the US Army marksmanship manual.

Indeed I have shot as much 45 as 22 recently and there's no flinch with a 22 for me. A consistent trigger is important to me. I have shot a couple of 45's with heavier trigger pulls than my DW Valor and it makes a difference. That direct response in a 1911 is great. My 22 is spongy till just before break. When I was shooting it a lot I could hold the trigger just at that point and finalize my sight picture but that is a lot of work with too much room for error. I really would like a gun with a trigger as close to a 1911 as possible.

I have been using a Red Dot reflex sight on the 22 which helps immensely. Iron sights with my Valor are less easy with the black background indeed becoming lost. I will be getting a Bullseye 45 tand add a Red Dot - I don't want to use my Valor.

As to stance, not sure if I mentioned I am mildly handicapped from an accident a year and a half ago and have been doing my shooting sitting down. That accident is what sparked me to think Bullseye shooting because I was a very active guy prior.

I will go down because I know the group is eager for new members and very helpful.

lakesidemn · Post by **lakesidemn** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:50 pm

Welcome to Bullseye! I think you will find fellow shooters to be very helpful and accommodating regarding your standing/sitting needs. There are dozens of websites and books to peruse, but the best thing to do is get out there and shoot - especially matches. I was petrified my first match. One of my 50yd shots hit the metal target stand number UNDER the target and bent it nicely! Very embarrassing, but the High Master shooter that I was standing next to politely pointed out that it happens to everyone (well, almost everyone) and that I will also shoot other people's targets at some point in the future. They all said it was just a matter of "when", not "if". Yes, I did shoot someone else's target down the road. The best shooters said "Don't worry about the score, just come out and have fun, the scores will follow". I heeded their advice and I've been having fun at the sport for 3 yrs now. My .22 scores are in the low 800's and my .45 (while still embarrassing) is much better and I keep all the shots in the scoring rings.

Regarding your .45 Les Baer interest... There are great Les Baers that come up for sale often on Commercial Row at www.bullseyeforum.net. Last I looked there was one for $1,400. I purchased a Les Baer from a member of this group. Excellent gun at a reasonable price. The main Bullseye forum has moved to Google at https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en# ... eye-l-list. Not to stray you from this fine forum on TargetTalk, but you can get some great information there as well.

Best of luck and have fun!

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:10 pm

Thanks a lot Lakeside. Isn't it interesting how the folks who are among the best at something are the most modest. I have noticed this in varied sports and hobbies over the years.

I am very interested in that Baer Wadcutter but I really need to sell one of my 45's to buy that. I bought a rifle and a 9mm Sig in the last month, both used, but my wife's eyebrows will really rise if I buy something without selling something now :)

I really need a 22 with a good trigger too. My Brownings' trigger I know is better than the stock Ruger but the Ruger has well known trigger kits available.

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:10 pm

oops :)

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:54 am

I have purchased a Baer Wadcutter delivered for $1250.

I had been using 3.8-4.0gr VV N310 behind a 200gr LSWC. I have stashed 3.5 lbs of the powder away for competition use as I see it's not to be had recently.

Subsequently picked up some Green and Red Dot to use as practice powders, using 5.0 gr of Green Dot behind the 200gr LSWC. Someone told me recently that mostly 185 gr lswc are used.

Can anyone comment on powders I listed and 185gr vs 200 gr LSWC?

Thanks

lakesidemn · Post by **lakesidemn** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:39 pm

I found 3.7gr of VV N310 with 200gr LSWC had the best accuracy for my gun and cycled my slide mounted dot efficiently.

I also used 4.4gr of VV N310 on a 185gr LSWC.

A friend of mine (high master) uses 4.0gr of Bullseye for his 185gr LSWC.

chiltech500 · Post by **chiltech500** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:07 pm

Lakeside, thanks for the info.

Based on your information and another shooter I talked to, I will re-experiment with 3.7 - it will give me a chance to try out my new chrono. I am not a good sand bag shooter thus my conclusion that the lower loads were not as accurate as the 4.0 may not be well founded. I am such a gadget lover, I would really like to have a ransom rest.

Have you any observations/wisdom of 185 gr vs 200 gr LSWC? Or is it a situation where one has to try out in a pistol and see which works out better?

I have read/heard that VV is supposedly discontinuing the N310, have you or anyone heard something? Having tried Bullseye, Titegroup and now Green Dot I clearly prefer the N310.