OK Scatt analysts, (Scatt with two t's), I need some help here.
Without leading the witness, having some difficulty with textbook vertical descent. Is this within range, or should we drive for pure vertical, if so, any recommendations on exercises to do so?
I see another issue I think we need to address, I won't lead the witnesses, but invite suggestions.
Thanks in advance for those who take the time to share their knowledge.
Scattological Analysis Requested
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kilowhiskey
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Scattological Analysis Requested
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It should be much more vertical than that, I'd typically suggest slightly off vertical is OK, but only by a small amount - i.e. 11-1 o-clock on a clock face. Also it should be consistent, that is more important than absolute direction in my opinion. Coming in from the side suggests muscling which you don't want, it should just rise and lower as the shooter breaths. I'd also suggest the follow through isn't great either, all should sit in a tight circle over the bull, at least for the first second after release, and again the pattern (of decay) should be consistent.
One other thing I'd suggeest is adding in 10.0a and 10.5a, more useful than just the 10.0 value for example, as it better illustrates hold size and stability rather than being skewed by the absolute precision.
One other comment is that trace length should be under 10mm for top level shooters, so that gives you a pointer. When I worked with a regional rifle squad, most shooters were 50-100% worse than the elite figures - albeit for prone. So again that should help give a flavour.
Rob.
One other thing I'd suggeest is adding in 10.0a and 10.5a, more useful than just the 10.0 value for example, as it better illustrates hold size and stability rather than being skewed by the absolute precision.
One other comment is that trace length should be under 10mm for top level shooters, so that gives you a pointer. When I worked with a regional rifle squad, most shooters were 50-100% worse than the elite figures - albeit for prone. So again that should help give a flavour.
Rob.
Rob -
Trace length under 10??? I have placed my rifle on a rest several times and with careful attention to detail have not been able to get any trace below 17/18. This is at 10 meters distance using 50 meter target. I see slight movement on the trace with the rifle just at rest.
Others have told me the same thing with their set-ups. Any recommendations?
Dennis L
Trace length under 10??? I have placed my rifle on a rest several times and with careful attention to detail have not been able to get any trace below 17/18. This is at 10 meters distance using 50 meter target. I see slight movement on the trace with the rifle just at rest.
Others have told me the same thing with their set-ups. Any recommendations?
Dennis L
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WesternGrizzly
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 pm
That's because trace length is scaled to the specified target distance. Try shooting on a 10m air rifle target and see what you get.dlinden wrote:Rob -
Trace length under 10??? I have placed my rifle on a rest several times and with careful attention to detail have not been able to get any trace below 17/18. This is at 10 meters distance using 50 meter target. I see slight movement on the trace with the rifle just at rest.
Others have told me the same thing with their set-ups. Any recommendations?
Dennis L
Rob.
OK. I have been hanging around ranges for several decades and found most if not all competitive shooters to be very intelligent and educated but I have NEVER heard anyone use the word "scattological" or even "scatological" .
Often though the use of the more "barnyard" terms is heard after shooting a 9.
Often though the use of the more "barnyard" terms is heard after shooting a 9.
Dennis,dlinden wrote:Rob -
Thanks. I wrongly assumed the poster was shooting at 50 M target. Couldn't grasp how those trace lengths were so small.
Scatology - The study of excrement.
Scattology - Something else all together.
Dennis L
I'm still thinking you may have technical issues if you are seeing background trace lengths of 17mm, and chatter or noise. The following is from a document our regional head coach produced on scatt trace lengths and as you'll see, prone should only be 20-35mm so you really should nor see noise around half of that. It sounds like you have sensor problems perhaps caused by the light source.
Trace Length (for top performing shooters)
Prone Kneeling Standing Air Rifle Air Pistol
20-35mm 30-40mm 40-50mm 7-9mm 55-75mm
Suggest you compare your rested traces to a couple of elite shooter ones on the scatt website. Or feel free to pm me an example as I have some of our squad ones on my pc at home.
Rob.
Regarding trace length when the rifle is on a rest there is some information in this thread.
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ight=scatt
For me I have around 20mm in trace length with a perfectly still rifle on a rest and it's the same with light on or in complete darkness.
So if I take that in consideration I have around 32-60mm in "real" trace length in prone. I've worked really hard to shrink this but it seems to be really hard to get it lower than that. I will start experimenting more with closed eye shooting on the SCATT just to see if there is any difference. If my trace length is the same with my eyes closed then there must be my position that causes that amount of movement. If the traces becomes less then I must muscle the gun on aim.
Regarding coming straigth down on the target you should by some amount of dedicated training make it much better. For me I do the lift from the stand and align myself with the target looking over the rear sight and front sight. Then I check balance, goes straight down with my head and rest the cheek on the cheekpiece, there I look if I'm aligned at 12 O'clock above the aiming mark. I then look away with my eyes only to not disturb balance and check my balance again. When that is done I take up the first stage on my trigger and look back through the sights and just relax my way in too the middle and achieve my hold and just shoot the shot. Be careful so you don't relax too much so the whole position collapses.
If my hip position isn't paralell to the centre of the target then the way down too the middle becomes less straight.
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ight=scatt
For me I have around 20mm in trace length with a perfectly still rifle on a rest and it's the same with light on or in complete darkness.
So if I take that in consideration I have around 32-60mm in "real" trace length in prone. I've worked really hard to shrink this but it seems to be really hard to get it lower than that. I will start experimenting more with closed eye shooting on the SCATT just to see if there is any difference. If my trace length is the same with my eyes closed then there must be my position that causes that amount of movement. If the traces becomes less then I must muscle the gun on aim.
Regarding coming straigth down on the target you should by some amount of dedicated training make it much better. For me I do the lift from the stand and align myself with the target looking over the rear sight and front sight. Then I check balance, goes straight down with my head and rest the cheek on the cheekpiece, there I look if I'm aligned at 12 O'clock above the aiming mark. I then look away with my eyes only to not disturb balance and check my balance again. When that is done I take up the first stage on my trigger and look back through the sights and just relax my way in too the middle and achieve my hold and just shoot the shot. Be careful so you don't relax too much so the whole position collapses.
If my hip position isn't paralell to the centre of the target then the way down too the middle becomes less straight.
Thanks Johan -
I recall the discussion from early last year. We were all asking the same questions then as now. I think Rob will disagree, but a number of people with good street cred have found similar baseline artifact in the SCATT trace readings with the rifle at full rest. Reasons postulated for this are varied and quite speculative. I still think it represents a relevant factor if nothing more than permitting the establishment of realistic and attainable measurement goals.
Dennis L
I recall the discussion from early last year. We were all asking the same questions then as now. I think Rob will disagree, but a number of people with good street cred have found similar baseline artifact in the SCATT trace readings with the rifle at full rest. Reasons postulated for this are varied and quite speculative. I still think it represents a relevant factor if nothing more than permitting the establishment of realistic and attainable measurement goals.
Dennis L