USMC,
Anschutz started fitting an adjustable cheeckpiece to 1413 Supermatch and 1411 Prone rifles in about 1972. The 1600 rifles started a few years later in 1977. Anschutz made the non-adjustable-cheekpiece 1413 for longer than the adjustable cheekpiece 1413 rifles, so it's quite understandable to think all 1413s are non-adjustable.
As for triggers, Anschutz offered a choice of three units for the pre-1977 1400 rifles: the single stage (1408 500g, and 1411 1,500g); the 1404 and 1407 two stage (small silver trigger); and the 5039 double set trigger. The 5039 is pretty rare. Most 1400 rifles will have a plain single or two stage unit, which one you get is really down to the original buyer's preference.
Tim
Help to identify this ANSCHUTZ
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USMC
In the 70s it used to be that the only rifle that shipped with a 2-stage trigger was the 1413. The 1407 "standard" rifle and 1411 prone rifle both shipped with the single stage trigger. At one point in time the "standard rifle" had to have some specific trigger pull, although I have long forgotten what the number was. When that requirement went away the xx07 and xx13 both shipped with a two stage trigger. In the late 70s the 1611s shipped with the 5075 trigger, which was the single stage, heavier pull variant of the 5071 trigger so the tradition of shipping the prone gun with the single stage trigger persisted for some time. (both 5071 and 5075 were early versions of the modern aluminum framed trigger.)
Now the rifle in the OP has the single stage trigger (identified by the curved trigger lever) with the heavy barrel, this is the type of thing that would have shipped from the factory with a 1411 stock. Hence my guess that the barreled action started life as a 1411 and was placed in a 1413 stock. Now there is a chance it started life as a 1413 and someone simply placed the single stage trigger on it, but that would be an unusual thing to do.
Cheers,
'Dude
In the 70s it used to be that the only rifle that shipped with a 2-stage trigger was the 1413. The 1407 "standard" rifle and 1411 prone rifle both shipped with the single stage trigger. At one point in time the "standard rifle" had to have some specific trigger pull, although I have long forgotten what the number was. When that requirement went away the xx07 and xx13 both shipped with a two stage trigger. In the late 70s the 1611s shipped with the 5075 trigger, which was the single stage, heavier pull variant of the 5071 trigger so the tradition of shipping the prone gun with the single stage trigger persisted for some time. (both 5071 and 5075 were early versions of the modern aluminum framed trigger.)
Now the rifle in the OP has the single stage trigger (identified by the curved trigger lever) with the heavy barrel, this is the type of thing that would have shipped from the factory with a 1411 stock. Hence my guess that the barreled action started life as a 1411 and was placed in a 1413 stock. Now there is a chance it started life as a 1413 and someone simply placed the single stage trigger on it, but that would be an unusual thing to do.
Cheers,
'Dude
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Martin Catley
- Posts: 170
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- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Triggers
Hi Dude it must have been a "Country" thing over here in NZ, and I might be wrong, the majority of rifles came out with the single stage and two stage were quite rare. I did buy a two stage in that era but had to get it separate to the Rifle.
We did have the 1.1 Kg Trigger weight rule here for all Smallbore which replaced the 3Lb rule early on to follow a ISSF rule at the time.
We did have the 1.1 Kg Trigger weight rule here for all Smallbore which replaced the 3Lb rule early on to follow a ISSF rule at the time.
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Dwayne JRA
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:24 am
- Location: JAMAICA
Can somebody leases explain why anschutz has changed the default trigger on new rifles to the two stage trigger? Are there any world champions or Olympic finalists or even other great shooters who use single stage triggers?
Can the two stage be adjusted to the point where it shoots like a single stage
Can the two stage be adjusted to the point where it shoots like a single stage
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Martin Catley
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:19 am
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Single Stage
Yes you can go online and download the instructions for your trigger it tells you how to there. Good shooting.[/quote]
Most of the top ISU/UIT/ISSF shooters over the last 50 years or so have been using a two stage trigger. Well at least outside of the US, there may be a few from the US using a single stage though. Outside of the US most sporters will also come with a two stage trigger too. The funny thing is that there has been some movement to single stage triggers among ISSF shooters in recent years. Most well set up two stage triggers should allow you to bring the trigger through the first stage while taking most of the weight, if a sporter, and then stop against a definate second stage, which you then operate very much in the same way you would with a single stage trigger.Dwayne JRA wrote:Can somebody leases explain why anschutz has changed the default trigger on new rifles to the two stage trigger? Are there any world champions or Olympic finalists or even other great shooters who use single stage triggers?
Can the two stage be adjusted to the point where it shoots like a single stage
Most of the really good two stage smallbore/air rifle match triggers operate in the same way, but the first stage weight will be just enough to take the trigger blade back forwards to the start position if you change your mind. So other than the initial first stage take up the triggering technique is virtually identical to a single stage.
Personally I like the way a match two stage allows you to place and then refine the placement if necessary your first finger pad on the trigger leaver, without worrying about inadvertently releasing the shot.
Alan
Dwayne,Dwayne JRA wrote:Can somebody leases explain why anschutz has changed the default trigger on new rifles to the two stage trigger? Are there any world champions or Olympic finalists or even other great shooters who use single stage triggers?
Can the two stage be adjusted to the point where it shoots like a single stage
because many shooters prefer a two-stage trigger. The extra sear engagement gives a greater margin for safety against firing prematurely. Two stage triggers were first developed for military rifles, to prevent negligent discharges; early models weren't seen as refined enough for target shooting. Until the 1960's when light reliable two-stage triggers became common, target shooters used single stage triggers (especially in English speaking countries) or double set triggers. Double set triggers dropped out in the 1970s; they were complex, expensive, and were slower than two/single stage units. True single stage triggers are still made, but primarily for bench rest shooting.
Yes, some top shooters use a single stage trigger; I beleive Warren Potent is one.
Yes, the Anschutz 5018 trigger (standard since 1980) and the older 5071 trigger can be set to single stage. Some have been set as single stage at the factory. I have mine set to single stage; it's light and creep-free.
I have a Kenyon single stage trigger on an older Anshutz 54 that I prefer over my 18 and 19 series rifle for prone. It is so light that it did take some getting used to before preventing disharging before being ready to commit to the shot. Because the good competition single stage triggers can be so light, it can be easy to shoot before ready in the standing and kneeling position.
As already noted by Tim, the first of the two stages is essentially a safety. It make sure there is good deep engagement on the sear so that the rifle will not discharge with a bump or jostle.
Many of the old style American Prone shooters, (A day consists of 160 rounds at various distances at 20 shots in 20 min stages, including sighters) will discuss a single stage trigger as an advantage as you can get on the trigger, settle and release the shot more quickly than with a 2 stage where you have to take up the first stage before you are really ready to shoot. This can be important when you are waiting out the wind and when your condition comes back you want to be able to deliver shots as quickly and smoothly as possible before your condition goes away.
With a fine, light single stage the thing the shooter has to be careful of is that they can be adjusted a little too fine and sometimes closing the bolt hard can cause the rifle to go off. An older trigger with some wear might be more likely to do this than a new trigger. This is where the safety of the first stage comes in. If a rifle has this tendency it can usually be adjusted for more sear engagement but too much sear can cause the trigger to have creep or perceptible motion during the shot process, so it is a balance.
I tend to prefer a crisp single stage for prone and the two stage for position and air rifle standing.
'Dude
Many of the old style American Prone shooters, (A day consists of 160 rounds at various distances at 20 shots in 20 min stages, including sighters) will discuss a single stage trigger as an advantage as you can get on the trigger, settle and release the shot more quickly than with a 2 stage where you have to take up the first stage before you are really ready to shoot. This can be important when you are waiting out the wind and when your condition comes back you want to be able to deliver shots as quickly and smoothly as possible before your condition goes away.
With a fine, light single stage the thing the shooter has to be careful of is that they can be adjusted a little too fine and sometimes closing the bolt hard can cause the rifle to go off. An older trigger with some wear might be more likely to do this than a new trigger. This is where the safety of the first stage comes in. If a rifle has this tendency it can usually be adjusted for more sear engagement but too much sear can cause the trigger to have creep or perceptible motion during the shot process, so it is a balance.
I tend to prefer a crisp single stage for prone and the two stage for position and air rifle standing.
'Dude
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Dwayne JRA
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:24 am
- Location: JAMAICA
So........after much trying and offering, i could not get the guy at my club to sell me the rifle. So the used 1413 is off the table. now in the time I took to try persuade the man, the 1913s at Creedmoor are all sold out!!!!! Just my luck.
Can Somebody point me in the right direction to purchase a brand new 1913 in the thumb-hole walnut stock?
Neal Stepp, Champ Choice, Champion Shooters, Creedmoore are all OUT!
Can Somebody point me in the right direction to purchase a brand new 1913 in the thumb-hole walnut stock?
Neal Stepp, Champ Choice, Champion Shooters, Creedmoore are all OUT!
I know Neal Stepp personally so am biased but like to give my business to him when he can help me out. Last Spring and Summer during the 22 ammo shortage here in the US Neal put my name on a list, and called his customers in order they had requested to be put on the list. Exceptional service from him.
Call Neal and ask him to put your name on a list so when he gets a 1913 you can have first chance at it, or he will just flat out order it for you. (He did that for my air rifle, I had to wait about 6 weeks)
The other thing to do would be contact M.T. Guns in Nevada, 805 680-0201. M.T. Guns deals in used target rifles and may have something.
As another thought, as you have a US based FFL that helps you get stuff from the US, troll around on Gunbroker as occasionally xx13s come up for auction on there.
You noted earlier, that you have access to a Remington IMR so you are not completely shut out. Make the best of it while you wait, shooting is very much about patience. (Hate to sound glib there but it is true.)
Good Luck
Cheers,
Dude
Call Neal and ask him to put your name on a list so when he gets a 1913 you can have first chance at it, or he will just flat out order it for you. (He did that for my air rifle, I had to wait about 6 weeks)
The other thing to do would be contact M.T. Guns in Nevada, 805 680-0201. M.T. Guns deals in used target rifles and may have something.
As another thought, as you have a US based FFL that helps you get stuff from the US, troll around on Gunbroker as occasionally xx13s come up for auction on there.
You noted earlier, that you have access to a Remington IMR so you are not completely shut out. Make the best of it while you wait, shooting is very much about patience. (Hate to sound glib there but it is true.)
Good Luck
Cheers,
Dude
Speaking of Gunbroker,
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =398818196
Here is a 1413, appears to be very similar vintage to the one you had in the OP.
Good Luck
'Dude
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =398818196
Here is a 1413, appears to be very similar vintage to the one you had in the OP.
Good Luck
'Dude
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Dwayne JRA
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:24 am
- Location: JAMAICA
I would really prefer to buy a more modern rifle (do not intend to buy twice in near future) since I going to have to be going through the hassles of import and all.
Really want to just buy the 1913 and put the rifle thing to bed don't want to have to be still thinking of a newer rifle to replace the 40yr old.
Really want to just buy the 1913 and put the rifle thing to bed don't want to have to be still thinking of a newer rifle to replace the 40yr old.
My opinion, and its worth what you paid for it.
The 14 is good for prone and not much more now. The 18 and later have a lock time that is scarey fast and it does matter in standing. The trigger needs to be replaced with a 2 stage.
The barrel is almost certainly shot out. I believe many shooters blame other factors like ammo, wind, their eyes, age ect. when a declining score is in fact their barrel. If possible you could send your rifle to Eley in Texas or Lapua in Az to find a lot of ammo that will shoot in your gun or determine that the barrel is done.
If it is the barrel you might consider a first step of having a precision gunsmith rechamber and recrown your barrel. Many shooters have done this successfully with older barrels.
My opinion of barrels is that Anschutz makes some great barrels. And those probably go to elite shooters. I have never known of a shooter who rebarreled a rifle with an Anschutz factory barrel. There are many barrel makers out there like Lilja, Border ect that do great work
Also the brand of barrel is important but the quality of the gunsmith installing it is even more important. Some just do better work than others.
The 14 is good for prone and not much more now. The 18 and later have a lock time that is scarey fast and it does matter in standing. The trigger needs to be replaced with a 2 stage.
The barrel is almost certainly shot out. I believe many shooters blame other factors like ammo, wind, their eyes, age ect. when a declining score is in fact their barrel. If possible you could send your rifle to Eley in Texas or Lapua in Az to find a lot of ammo that will shoot in your gun or determine that the barrel is done.
If it is the barrel you might consider a first step of having a precision gunsmith rechamber and recrown your barrel. Many shooters have done this successfully with older barrels.
My opinion of barrels is that Anschutz makes some great barrels. And those probably go to elite shooters. I have never known of a shooter who rebarreled a rifle with an Anschutz factory barrel. There are many barrel makers out there like Lilja, Border ect that do great work
Also the brand of barrel is important but the quality of the gunsmith installing it is even more important. Some just do better work than others.
@gwsb
Several of your points are accurate, 18xx and up have a faster lock time, for 3P I would update the trigger. When going to rebarrel you can almost certainly do better than the factory Anschutz barrel.
I am not sure I buy into the idea that any 14xx out there is just about certainly shot out. I have run into numerous older 14xx and 18xx in good condition where the story was the owner shot a few years in high school or college then put the rifle up, always intending to get back to but never quite getting there. Shot count probably under 10k rounds. If the barrel is bad, it is not from high mileage.
Looks like the OP has his heart set on getting a brand new 1913, so the discussion is pretty much academic at this point.
Cheers,
'Dude
Several of your points are accurate, 18xx and up have a faster lock time, for 3P I would update the trigger. When going to rebarrel you can almost certainly do better than the factory Anschutz barrel.
I am not sure I buy into the idea that any 14xx out there is just about certainly shot out. I have run into numerous older 14xx and 18xx in good condition where the story was the owner shot a few years in high school or college then put the rifle up, always intending to get back to but never quite getting there. Shot count probably under 10k rounds. If the barrel is bad, it is not from high mileage.
Looks like the OP has his heart set on getting a brand new 1913, so the discussion is pretty much academic at this point.
Cheers,
'Dude
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Dwayne JRA
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:24 am
- Location: JAMAICA
At this point my heart all but set on the 1913. The member at my club refuses to sell the 1413 for sentimental reasons that u can't fight. So since I'm now forced to import a rifle from the states I may as well go for the upgrade. Still open tho to ideas
Was looking at getting a moderately use rifle and having a lilja barrel installed depending on the cost just to be sure the barrel is fine
Was looking at getting a moderately use rifle and having a lilja barrel installed depending on the cost just to be sure the barrel is fine
Dwayne,
If you have your heart set on a 1913 then that is what you should do. It just settles the mind to know you are shooting what you really want to be shooting.
Unless there are some other significant administrative difficulties with sending the rifle somewhere to be rebarreled you should consider working with the factory barrel first. By the time you buy the rifle, sights and likely a few sight accessories (adjustable rear iris should be first on your list) you are likely going to have $3500+ USD on the table. To have a fresh barrel put on right away will add probably another $500-600.
I most sincerely recommend you put that barrel money toward some training ammo work on your performance and when you start getting the mid to upper 580s (integer scoring) then start thinking about a nicer barrel.
My 2 cents
'Dude
If you have your heart set on a 1913 then that is what you should do. It just settles the mind to know you are shooting what you really want to be shooting.
Unless there are some other significant administrative difficulties with sending the rifle somewhere to be rebarreled you should consider working with the factory barrel first. By the time you buy the rifle, sights and likely a few sight accessories (adjustable rear iris should be first on your list) you are likely going to have $3500+ USD on the table. To have a fresh barrel put on right away will add probably another $500-600.
I most sincerely recommend you put that barrel money toward some training ammo work on your performance and when you start getting the mid to upper 580s (integer scoring) then start thinking about a nicer barrel.
My 2 cents
'Dude