Many know I've done pellet tests in the past here on TT.
I just finished another test of three pellets; two lots of RWS Basic and one of RWS R10 Pistol.
My old lot of Basic tested rather poorly. I knew that already since I had tried them before and I was shooting them up in practice. Still, every shot would easily have been a ten.
The annoying part came when I tested my new lot of Basics against the R10s as a control. Except for one shot that "bulged" the group, it was smaller than the R10s that I had been using for matches. Every shot in these groups would have deeply cut the "11" ring.
The groups were 30 shots each (from an LP1); far more realistic than the 5 or 10 shot groups most test with.
I always did like those Basics!
Annoying pellet test
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pellet test
"old lot of Basic". Does this mean they were produced several years ago and now have decreased performance?
Alternatively were these pellets produced using different manufacturing than today?
I could envision aging and oxidation making pellets perform at a lower level but don't know what that time period would be. I shot some old Daisy pellets from the 1990s recently and they felt different than the new pellets--likely a fair bit of oxidation. Depending on where they were in the package the exterior oxidation was uneven and likely affected accuracy. Havent seen any data on oxidation and pellet aging but they likely need an expiration date though not sure it would be a short one since my crusty pellets were about old enough to vote.
I had some older (couple of years old) gamo match and they felt odd too but I think that was a manufacturing process change and have not really liked either the new or old but did like the screw top lids
Alternatively were these pellets produced using different manufacturing than today?
I could envision aging and oxidation making pellets perform at a lower level but don't know what that time period would be. I shot some old Daisy pellets from the 1990s recently and they felt different than the new pellets--likely a fair bit of oxidation. Depending on where they were in the package the exterior oxidation was uneven and likely affected accuracy. Havent seen any data on oxidation and pellet aging but they likely need an expiration date though not sure it would be a short one since my crusty pellets were about old enough to vote.
I had some older (couple of years old) gamo match and they felt odd too but I think that was a manufacturing process change and have not really liked either the new or old but did like the screw top lids
I guess I should have been clearer. What I meant by "older" was the lot I was currently shooting. They are not old at all; maybe a year. The lot I'm talking about is at least as old (a half case bought from a shooter getting out of the game).
I had tested and found (but never reported) they were not great performers.
What I'm saying is that it is not the brand of pellet you are shooting, but the lot number that is the most important.
When I saw the number of readers of this post with (so far) only one response, I can only think they are thinking, "Hmph, MY gun wouldn't do that." Idle dreamers....
I had tested and found (but never reported) they were not great performers.
What I'm saying is that it is not the brand of pellet you are shooting, but the lot number that is the most important.
When I saw the number of readers of this post with (so far) only one response, I can only think they are thinking, "Hmph, MY gun wouldn't do that." Idle dreamers....
To tell the truth, I'm not too thrilled with pellet testing. I (along with Pilk) don't think it matters all that much.
If you look at my test, even the crappy Basics easily cleaned the 10 ring.
But I'm just kinda nosy, so I play with this stuff.
Remember my motto: If you want to know, test it yourself.
Really, it's the only way!
But if you want to send me some Vogels, I'll test 'em. I do remember testing some of their reject pellets at one time and they were the worst I ever played with.
To be honest, the next time I buy pellets it will be from Top Gun here in Scottsdale. The JSB light pellets consistently made the smallest groups of anything tested. Also, they delivered the pellets to my door personally. (But I did buy him a beer.)
If you look at my test, even the crappy Basics easily cleaned the 10 ring.
But I'm just kinda nosy, so I play with this stuff.
Remember my motto: If you want to know, test it yourself.
Really, it's the only way!
But if you want to send me some Vogels, I'll test 'em. I do remember testing some of their reject pellets at one time and they were the worst I ever played with.
To be honest, the next time I buy pellets it will be from Top Gun here in Scottsdale. The JSB light pellets consistently made the smallest groups of anything tested. Also, they delivered the pellets to my door personally. (But I did buy him a beer.)
By the way, I seem to recall a rule on TT, made mandatory by one of the admins, that every time we talked about pellet testing for AP we had to write something like this five or ten times...
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
:)
I've tested a bunch of brands myself 3 weeks ago, with H&N Final Match Pistol making the smallest group, closely followed by the RWS Basics, which made my wallet very happy.
Had also two types of Walter Match Krugeln (different boxes), Walter Final Match, Top Shot, Excite, and Gamo Pro Macth Competition.
Of all this brands only the gamo would not guarantee an inner ten with the Excite a close second to last. The Top Shot was just a little smaller than the Walter's, almost tied, but still behind the RWS.
And the next time someone tells you that pellet testing is a waste of time, just tell them that it's part of your mental training program! After all, you have to trust your equipment!
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
"Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be practising"
:)
I've tested a bunch of brands myself 3 weeks ago, with H&N Final Match Pistol making the smallest group, closely followed by the RWS Basics, which made my wallet very happy.
Had also two types of Walter Match Krugeln (different boxes), Walter Final Match, Top Shot, Excite, and Gamo Pro Macth Competition.
Of all this brands only the gamo would not guarantee an inner ten with the Excite a close second to last. The Top Shot was just a little smaller than the Walter's, almost tied, but still behind the RWS.
And the next time someone tells you that pellet testing is a waste of time, just tell them that it's part of your mental training program! After all, you have to trust your equipment!
When I lived in Hawaii, the locals thought the "portagees" were crazy. They would hunt wild pigs armed with a bayonet. If you've heard American "polack" jokes, you have a good understanding of the attitude.
It sounds like you have a good understanding of the pellet situation.
Have an Estrella on me.
It sounds like you have a good understanding of the pellet situation.
Have an Estrella on me.
I have recently switched to JSB Exact Express Diabolo 4.52mm (round nose) with my FWB Model. 2 and C5 (both CO2) and found myself in 96/100 territory more often than ever before in 10m SIUS-scoring targets.
Give them a try, you never know.
I got this tip from a fellow shooter and now that I realized the difference a simple pellet switch can make (if I do may part, of course), I am passing the good news on.
The JSB Express cost me 10 Euros per tin but they seem to fit my style and AP model best. They just shoot straight. I was truly surprized. They work a lot better for me than the similarly priced flat-head JSB Match (green tin) or the 18 Euro R10 (pistol).
Give them a try, you never know.
I got this tip from a fellow shooter and now that I realized the difference a simple pellet switch can make (if I do may part, of course), I am passing the good news on.
The JSB Express cost me 10 Euros per tin but they seem to fit my style and AP model best. They just shoot straight. I was truly surprized. They work a lot better for me than the similarly priced flat-head JSB Match (green tin) or the 18 Euro R10 (pistol).
Well Rover, bayonets don't run out of bullets, and it gives the pig a fighting chance. That's all good karma! :)
Estella is a Spanish beer... I'm a little to the left on the map. Here, besides the international brands you have some very nice portuguese made beers, Super Bock and Sagres being the best. I think I will have one of each...
Cheers!
Estella is a Spanish beer... I'm a little to the left on the map. Here, besides the international brands you have some very nice portuguese made beers, Super Bock and Sagres being the best. I think I will have one of each...
Cheers!
Testing
Unless you use a very sophisticated test rig even using a sandbag and bench rest most group size on most tests are aiming errors. A system I saw being used to shoot one hole groups and now use is to use a Scatt set up on the pistol or rifle, with the screen on full zoom and then sight using the screen to move the trace carefully into the middle for each shot.
Good shooting
Robin
Good shooting
Robin
RobinC
You don't need any sophistication, you just need a good vice, with soft jaws, that is very securely bolted to a rock solid table. No movement whatsoever can be allowed.
Without that, it's a waste of pellets.
And you need to be very careful when cocking the gun and pressing the trigger.
Look at it this way, you have to remove as much of the human factor as possible when testing.
Hope this helps
You don't need any sophistication, you just need a good vice, with soft jaws, that is very securely bolted to a rock solid table. No movement whatsoever can be allowed.
Without that, it's a waste of pellets.
And you need to be very careful when cocking the gun and pressing the trigger.
Look at it this way, you have to remove as much of the human factor as possible when testing.
Hope this helps
The way I do my pellet test is by mounting a pistol scope to the air pistol and shooting both indoors outdoors at a target from 7 to 30m distances.
I have a SIMMONS 7x32 AO that focuses from 7m to 100m.
Using two different scope mounts I do the testing twice. Once with a low scope base and one with a high one, using the same scope settings each time from a simple rest.
The pellet brands that consistently group one hole at 10m are few and far apart. Most R10 and H&N do that but often I get several pellets out of the single hole, which enlarge the group considerably. I repeat the test a week later and I get the same spread of shots. I tried different dia. pellets and only recently I got somewhere.
I finally got the proverbial one-hole-all-day-long with the JSB EXACT Express Diabolo 7.87grains, 4.52mm dia.
I tried to shoot them carefully, or in a sloppy way, or by deforming the pellets' skirts, or the heads and I still got them all to group in a single hole no matter what. I even put them in the wrong way 'round (I kid you not) and they still grouped. Obviously these pellets suit the vintage FWB CO2 Model 2 and Model C5 to the ground.
I repeated the test again a couple of days later and a week later and I got the same results: one ragged hole.
Finally I took both my FBW's to the range last Wednesday and shot them offhand scoring my highest results so far with 96/100 on several occasions.
Fingers crossed so far so good :)
I have a SIMMONS 7x32 AO that focuses from 7m to 100m.
Using two different scope mounts I do the testing twice. Once with a low scope base and one with a high one, using the same scope settings each time from a simple rest.
The pellet brands that consistently group one hole at 10m are few and far apart. Most R10 and H&N do that but often I get several pellets out of the single hole, which enlarge the group considerably. I repeat the test a week later and I get the same spread of shots. I tried different dia. pellets and only recently I got somewhere.
I finally got the proverbial one-hole-all-day-long with the JSB EXACT Express Diabolo 7.87grains, 4.52mm dia.
I tried to shoot them carefully, or in a sloppy way, or by deforming the pellets' skirts, or the heads and I still got them all to group in a single hole no matter what. I even put them in the wrong way 'round (I kid you not) and they still grouped. Obviously these pellets suit the vintage FWB CO2 Model 2 and Model C5 to the ground.
I repeated the test again a couple of days later and a week later and I got the same results: one ragged hole.
Finally I took both my FBW's to the range last Wednesday and shot them offhand scoring my highest results so far with 96/100 on several occasions.
Fingers crossed so far so good :)
Pellet testing is a waste of time. But I have fun...so...
I do my testing from a vise and carefully; just so you know. I think testing from sand bags is a waste of time; too much of the human factor.
It may surprise you that in their instruction manual, Steyr recommends putting the trigger guard (not the cylinder) in a vise and shooting about one shot a minute when testing pellets.
I always worried about crushing the cylinder (but never did).
I remember some years ago where a bench rest shooter friend was teaching a bunch of juniors. He shot a group before class and then invited the kids to shoot an easy group off the bags using the same equipment.
No surprise except to the kids.
By the way, I've poured down many a Sagres. Maybe that's why I couldn't remember the name.
For the lucky guys coming to the Desert Midwinter, "The Don" will have a sleeve of these for sale.
I do my testing from a vise and carefully; just so you know. I think testing from sand bags is a waste of time; too much of the human factor.
It may surprise you that in their instruction manual, Steyr recommends putting the trigger guard (not the cylinder) in a vise and shooting about one shot a minute when testing pellets.
I always worried about crushing the cylinder (but never did).
I remember some years ago where a bench rest shooter friend was teaching a bunch of juniors. He shot a group before class and then invited the kids to shoot an easy group off the bags using the same equipment.
No surprise except to the kids.
By the way, I've poured down many a Sagres. Maybe that's why I couldn't remember the name.
For the lucky guys coming to the Desert Midwinter, "The Don" will have a sleeve of these for sale.