Like Anschutz, FWB or walther? I realize that 10m air rifle is a standing discipline and that is the intended purpose for these rifles, but I am looking to cross train a little for Long Range prone shooting. Are these types of rifle suitable for slinging up to shoot prone with? Looking at pictures, etc, it seems like it would work fine, but I will not be able to try before buying, so just looking for any more experienced thoughts on the idea.
Thanks,
Erik
Anyone shoot prone with a high-end 10m air rifle?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
prone air
Erik
In the UK it is (or certainly was!) permitted to shoot match air rifle in the domestic 25 yd competitions.
My wife who is a good prone shot tried my air rifle, a Walther LG400 alutec, as it is closer in shape to her Walther KK300 alutec on the 25yd prone cards. It was only really as an experiment to see how they shot prone but the results were very similar to her KK300, posibly a little better. She found it strange not having recoil but used it as an interesting training exercise.
They will certainly shoot well at short range as long as there is no wind, the Germans do run three positional air rifle as a domestic event for youngsters.
I think you'd get more benefit from using the rifle you use for long range and buying a Scatt, but yes they can be shot prone.
Good shooting
Robin
In the UK it is (or certainly was!) permitted to shoot match air rifle in the domestic 25 yd competitions.
My wife who is a good prone shot tried my air rifle, a Walther LG400 alutec, as it is closer in shape to her Walther KK300 alutec on the 25yd prone cards. It was only really as an experiment to see how they shot prone but the results were very similar to her KK300, posibly a little better. She found it strange not having recoil but used it as an interesting training exercise.
They will certainly shoot well at short range as long as there is no wind, the Germans do run three positional air rifle as a domestic event for youngsters.
I think you'd get more benefit from using the rifle you use for long range and buying a Scatt, but yes they can be shot prone.
Good shooting
Robin
The NRA often holds 3P Precision Air rifle matches every year. In high school, I use to compete in these matches every year. These rifles work just as well as you would expect them to, in any shooting position. Long Range prone is a different can of worms so I'm not sure how well your 10m air rifle prone skills will transfer over.
That is a nice idea. Certainly the convenience and reduced cost of this would be great. I have never owned ( but have handled ) these top end air rifles and think they would fall short for prone training. Not being designed to handle sling tension and having bulk in different proportions I am not sure that the cost of one of these would be worth it. Perhaps such a purpose built item exists. The shooting distance would probably need to be stretched out to at least 20m.
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John Marchant
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3P air rifle is normally shot at 10 metres in the UK, but there is no reason why it would not work equally well at 25 yards.
Most of the top end rifles have accessory/attachment rails, so attaching a sling should not be a problem.
Only down side in using .177" pellets for 25 yards, what looks like a good scoring shot might end up loosing a point once the .22" gauge is used.
If using an air rifle in a .22" prone competition you can use any shaped pellets, so the better flight efficient domed/pointed pellets could be a good option.
Most of the top end rifles have accessory/attachment rails, so attaching a sling should not be a problem.
Only down side in using .177" pellets for 25 yards, what looks like a good scoring shot might end up loosing a point once the .22" gauge is used.
If using an air rifle in a .22" prone competition you can use any shaped pellets, so the better flight efficient domed/pointed pellets could be a good option.
The Aluminium stocked match rifles have almost identical stocks to the equivalent .22 match rifle. As robin said the the Walther LG400 Alutec air rifle and the KK300 Alutec feel almost identical. The Walther Anatomic stocks look even closer. Back when I shot 3P I got a cheap SSP match rifle to cross train for the standing position. Back then the AR stock was effectivly limited to the same as the standard rifle, as I shot free rifle it really didn't help that much as the feel was too different. These modern air rifles though feel just like shooting a free rifle.svensta wrote:That is a nice idea. Certainly the convenience and reduced cost of this would be great. I have never owned ( but have handled ) these top end air rifles and think they would fall short for prone training. Not being designed to handle sling tension and having bulk in different proportions I am not sure that the cost of one of these would be worth it. Perhaps such a purpose built item exists. The shooting distance would probably need to be stretched out to at least 20m.
Alan
Thanks all for the quick responses, this is definitely the sort of feedback I was hoping for. I'll give a little more info here on what I'm thinking.
I'm going into my 8th season shooting in the various NRA Highpower disciplines. In previous years, my focus has been on over-the-course 3 position Highpower matches, while also shooting Mid Range Prone, Long Range Prone, and some Smallbore Prone for cross training and to keep busy. I have always practiced standing shooting a lot with dry firing and on a Rika trainer that I had for about 3 years before it gave up the ghost. Last year I got a air rifle that Mr Pilkington put together for me, that is nearly identical in weight, balance, form and function to my OTC rifle. It has been a great training aid in standing.
Last fall I was lucky enough to qualify for a LR prone developmental team and plan to focus primarily on that for the foreseeable future. With the fullbore world championships being held in the US in 2015, I'd really like to be as prepared for that event as I can possibly be, and am trying to get a little creative with training ideas. I find that dry fire practice in prone is somehow even more boring than in standing. My Rika trainer broke down a year or so ago and had to be sent back to the factory for service. This process was very frustrating, taking 3 months and costing nearly $300. It broke down again 2 months later and I don't believe that sending it in again is worthwhile. I have a loaner SCATT trainer from my state association that I have not had good luck with and therefore do not enjoy using. There may be a problem with the unit, or I may be doing something wrong, but it just doesn't seem to function like it should.
I generally dry-fire practice in prone 3-4 times during the week, and shoot either smallbore prone or 300 meter prone every Saturday during the winter. Last winter, I made good improvements in standing when I switched to the air rifle for practice, and my thinking is that if I could find an air rifle solution for prone, I could similarly develop that position. I also found shooting the air rifle to be much more enjoyable than either dry fire or using the electronic trainer. Not that enjoyment is the biggest factor, but it is a factor for me. I do this as a hobby, so the less it feels like work the better, as far as I'm concerned. I should mention that my current air rifle for standing practice is not suitable for prone shooting.
I've been blessed enough that the cost of training gear is not a major concern, but I don't like to waste money. I would only have exactly 10m to work with as I practice in my house. It has occurred to me that this may be too short of a distance with a rifle of this quality to really get much useful feedback. It also occurs to me that the trigger, adjustments etc of a top-shelf air rifle may be too superior to my actual prone rifle to be useful. I have a very nice prone rifle, but it is a pretty crude instrument compared to something like a LG400. I did enjoy the Rika trainer(though not as much as the air rifle) when it worked, but would be hesitant to buy another one due to the service issue. With nowhere in the US to get it repaired and the difficulty and expense with dealing with the factory on the other side of the world and not speaking the same language, I wouldn't want to have to do it again. I have the same concern about the SCATT, but I could be mistaken there. I have also thought about a Noptel electronic trainer, but suspect that I might have the same issue if it needed service, and I do not have any way to try one out to see if I like it any better than the SCATT.
So, that is my dilemma. A very small problem in the grand scheme of things, but I hope to make the best decision the first time. I very much appreciate the advice given so far and look forward to any other suggestions you folks might have to offer.
Regards,
Erik
I'm going into my 8th season shooting in the various NRA Highpower disciplines. In previous years, my focus has been on over-the-course 3 position Highpower matches, while also shooting Mid Range Prone, Long Range Prone, and some Smallbore Prone for cross training and to keep busy. I have always practiced standing shooting a lot with dry firing and on a Rika trainer that I had for about 3 years before it gave up the ghost. Last year I got a air rifle that Mr Pilkington put together for me, that is nearly identical in weight, balance, form and function to my OTC rifle. It has been a great training aid in standing.
Last fall I was lucky enough to qualify for a LR prone developmental team and plan to focus primarily on that for the foreseeable future. With the fullbore world championships being held in the US in 2015, I'd really like to be as prepared for that event as I can possibly be, and am trying to get a little creative with training ideas. I find that dry fire practice in prone is somehow even more boring than in standing. My Rika trainer broke down a year or so ago and had to be sent back to the factory for service. This process was very frustrating, taking 3 months and costing nearly $300. It broke down again 2 months later and I don't believe that sending it in again is worthwhile. I have a loaner SCATT trainer from my state association that I have not had good luck with and therefore do not enjoy using. There may be a problem with the unit, or I may be doing something wrong, but it just doesn't seem to function like it should.
I generally dry-fire practice in prone 3-4 times during the week, and shoot either smallbore prone or 300 meter prone every Saturday during the winter. Last winter, I made good improvements in standing when I switched to the air rifle for practice, and my thinking is that if I could find an air rifle solution for prone, I could similarly develop that position. I also found shooting the air rifle to be much more enjoyable than either dry fire or using the electronic trainer. Not that enjoyment is the biggest factor, but it is a factor for me. I do this as a hobby, so the less it feels like work the better, as far as I'm concerned. I should mention that my current air rifle for standing practice is not suitable for prone shooting.
I've been blessed enough that the cost of training gear is not a major concern, but I don't like to waste money. I would only have exactly 10m to work with as I practice in my house. It has occurred to me that this may be too short of a distance with a rifle of this quality to really get much useful feedback. It also occurs to me that the trigger, adjustments etc of a top-shelf air rifle may be too superior to my actual prone rifle to be useful. I have a very nice prone rifle, but it is a pretty crude instrument compared to something like a LG400. I did enjoy the Rika trainer(though not as much as the air rifle) when it worked, but would be hesitant to buy another one due to the service issue. With nowhere in the US to get it repaired and the difficulty and expense with dealing with the factory on the other side of the world and not speaking the same language, I wouldn't want to have to do it again. I have the same concern about the SCATT, but I could be mistaken there. I have also thought about a Noptel electronic trainer, but suspect that I might have the same issue if it needed service, and I do not have any way to try one out to see if I like it any better than the SCATT.
So, that is my dilemma. A very small problem in the grand scheme of things, but I hope to make the best decision the first time. I very much appreciate the advice given so far and look forward to any other suggestions you folks might have to offer.
Regards,
Erik
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redschietti
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:31 pm
I know nothing about your chosen discipline but set your air rifle up just like your Highpower. Add weight so it weighs the same and balances the same. Set the trigger the same etc. Use your highpower gear and shoot 100s all day long! Most highschool kids in the US shoot 3p air. The forend come off many of the air rifles, and there is a rail underneath.
I'm an OTC and LR shooter from way back and find my Walther LG210 is an excellent aid for both standing and prone. The benefits for standing are probably pretty obvious and that is not what you are asking about so on to prone.
The air rifle will not give you any help with wind doping (shoot a .22LR prone 200yds for that). Even with the trigger pumped up to its heaviest setting it will still be much lighter than your center-fire belly gun so there is only a limited benefit there as well.
Where I think you will find value is that shooing a 10m gun in prone will allow you to really (I mean REALLY) see what different pressures on the gun do to shot placement. It will respond in measurable ways to very, very slight changes. What really happens when you increase stock weld pressure? What happens to NPA and shot placement if I pull my right knee up one more inch? Give it a try in practice and see ... get the idea?
So I find that my 10m gun really allowed me to finesse my position and learn the subtleties of the position.
The LG210 is a SSP, so I have to break position to pump the gun each shot. Having to rebuild NPA each and every time is another advantage, you get very good at doing that correctly and rapidly. You won't get this from a PCP, but you can force yourself to do this if you want.
I used to shoot 3P with both my smallbore and air rifle and that was just plain fun. A bad knee keeps me from kneeling now ... so those games are history, but if you have the time give them a try. It's another way to reap the joy of shooting.
The air rifle will not give you any help with wind doping (shoot a .22LR prone 200yds for that). Even with the trigger pumped up to its heaviest setting it will still be much lighter than your center-fire belly gun so there is only a limited benefit there as well.
Where I think you will find value is that shooing a 10m gun in prone will allow you to really (I mean REALLY) see what different pressures on the gun do to shot placement. It will respond in measurable ways to very, very slight changes. What really happens when you increase stock weld pressure? What happens to NPA and shot placement if I pull my right knee up one more inch? Give it a try in practice and see ... get the idea?
So I find that my 10m gun really allowed me to finesse my position and learn the subtleties of the position.
The LG210 is a SSP, so I have to break position to pump the gun each shot. Having to rebuild NPA each and every time is another advantage, you get very good at doing that correctly and rapidly. You won't get this from a PCP, but you can force yourself to do this if you want.
I used to shoot 3P with both my smallbore and air rifle and that was just plain fun. A bad knee keeps me from kneeling now ... so those games are history, but if you have the time give them a try. It's another way to reap the joy of shooting.
Thanks for the additional replies, guys. DLS, I think your post has convinced me to pull the trigger, so to speak. The benefits you mention about being able to break down every tiny nuance of position sound like they could really be valuable. I'm headed out of town tomorrow for a week, but I think I am going to order something when I get back home.
Thanks again,
Erik
Thanks again,
Erik