As I wrote in the subject, mental aspects in shooting does it get to much attention?
What do you think?
For me it feels like my biggest concerns are strictly technical and therefore it is mostly technical errors that make me to miss the middle. Therefore my focus is on my technique and some physical training to strengthen my body.
I do of course get nervous at competitons and I need to relax and that is a mental thing to do and when getting closer for me a good score then there is the same thing, I need to relax and maybe try to lower my pulse.
I've heard it many times that shooting is almost only mental and if you can shoot one ten then it's only your mind stopping you from only shooting tens. I don't think that's right and I think that many shooters get stuck a pretty low levels and think that it is mental training of some sort that is going to make them better. If I don't have a position that allows me to have a hold that is inside the ten ring then I will not be able to shoot only tens, of course you could succed to throw in a shoot in the ten ring but that is pure luck.
A bad position and/or technique doesn't work under pressure at all but can work in some way when training without the pressure from competition.
When reaching the level of high/maximum scores then I think the biggest concerns is mental but when reaching that level you have a great position and technique.
This is my thoughts on the subject and I would like to hear what other people think about it.
Mental aspects in shooting does it get to much attention?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
I tend to agree with Johann's sensible observations. I am fairly sure that my problems are 99% technical - position, triggering, etc. I write, however, from the lowly position of a mere club shooter in England, who turns up each week to shoot his two cards on multi-bull targets, with mostly mediocre results, and then goes home again hoping that next week will somehow be better! I do not have the opportunity to train properly, nor probably the inherent ability to make it worthwhile. I will admit, however, that the mental side does come into it whenever I put a really bad shot on the card or two shots on the same diagram, i.e. I need to make a conscious effort to regain my composure.
I agree with Johan that technique is very important. You are not going to succeed unless you have good and consistent technical skills.
However I think a very important mental aspect is developing self awareness; although some may class this as technique. I know many club level shooters who just don't think; they have never learnt to link the processes, and the tensions/balances of their position to the result on the target. As a result their shooting and scores are inconsistent because they can't reliably spot errors until they have made them, and they can't tell if their position/rifle fit/technique are good. To me being able to tell a good position and shot process from bad is vital, otherwise your shooting will be inconsistent.
I personally think that understanding the theory behind technique is important, but that's part of how I learn.
Another important mental aspect is confidence, which can be linked to self awareness. A member of my club finds it very difficult to relax when shooting, partly because they lack confidence and self awareness to understand their performance.
However I think a very important mental aspect is developing self awareness; although some may class this as technique. I know many club level shooters who just don't think; they have never learnt to link the processes, and the tensions/balances of their position to the result on the target. As a result their shooting and scores are inconsistent because they can't reliably spot errors until they have made them, and they can't tell if their position/rifle fit/technique are good. To me being able to tell a good position and shot process from bad is vital, otherwise your shooting will be inconsistent.
I personally think that understanding the theory behind technique is important, but that's part of how I learn.
Another important mental aspect is confidence, which can be linked to self awareness. A member of my club finds it very difficult to relax when shooting, partly because they lack confidence and self awareness to understand their performance.
I find that managing "intrusive thoughts" is an issue - maintaining focus on the tasks in hand.
It was also quite interesting reading the Noptel Analysis document where they suggest that it is not possible to concentrate on multiple activities at once and how you need to shift your focus between actions during the shot process.
Throw in some extra information to process - like wind flags and time limits - and suddenly your technique falls apart...
I also believe that maintaining your technique under pressure (not "choking") is a big contributor to success. Having the confidence to hand off tasks to established subconscious routines is the way that seems to be recommended.
Unfortunately the only way I've found to help with competition nerves is to shoot more competitions. Difficult to train for performing under pressure without being under pressure.
K.
It was also quite interesting reading the Noptel Analysis document where they suggest that it is not possible to concentrate on multiple activities at once and how you need to shift your focus between actions during the shot process.
Throw in some extra information to process - like wind flags and time limits - and suddenly your technique falls apart...
I also believe that maintaining your technique under pressure (not "choking") is a big contributor to success. Having the confidence to hand off tasks to established subconscious routines is the way that seems to be recommended.
Unfortunately the only way I've found to help with competition nerves is to shoot more competitions. Difficult to train for performing under pressure without being under pressure.
K.
Shooting is a blend of technical and mental, and the two can't really be dissociated.
The way I look at is it that having the real mental attitude, preparedness or training allows you to reproduce or even surpass what you can do in training. So if you shoot 590's in training and the same in matches well then mental is pretty well sorted. But if you can only shoot 570 in a match then that's telling you the mental side is pulling you down. Of course in training we should be training both (and other elements), but lets be honest, how many people really do any mental training never mind spending a significant amount of time on it ?
Rob.
The way I look at is it that having the real mental attitude, preparedness or training allows you to reproduce or even surpass what you can do in training. So if you shoot 590's in training and the same in matches well then mental is pretty well sorted. But if you can only shoot 570 in a match then that's telling you the mental side is pulling you down. Of course in training we should be training both (and other elements), but lets be honest, how many people really do any mental training never mind spending a significant amount of time on it ?
Rob.
One thing that makes this harder to answer is that most probably have different definitions of what a mental problem is.
If I jerk the trigger and score an eight that is not a mental problem if you ask me. I think that is a technique fault.
When looking at shooters in training and competitions you often can spot the errors they make and I don't think that is because they had a mental problem but it is lack of training and maybe wrong type of training that makes their technique sensitive of pressure.
Regulating tension, pulse and mindset is mental but I feel that the biggest concern for me and others at lower levels isn't found there.
If I jerk the trigger and score an eight that is not a mental problem if you ask me. I think that is a technique fault.
When looking at shooters in training and competitions you often can spot the errors they make and I don't think that is because they had a mental problem but it is lack of training and maybe wrong type of training that makes their technique sensitive of pressure.
Regulating tension, pulse and mindset is mental but I feel that the biggest concern for me and others at lower levels isn't found there.
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topclass52
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mental vs. technical
I am not the most proficient shooter, but for me, the mental aspect is huge, whether I am shooting a rifle or pistol. People ask me what my thought process is as I am shooting, and my reply is "I don't think while I am shooting; if I do, my mind is not on what I am doing." By this I mean I have spent the time to develop what (for me) is a reproducible technique and pre-shot routine, such that I do not have to think about those things -- they have become second nature. I can shoulder the rifle, focus mentally and physically on the target, and go from there -- no extraneous thoughts on technique, environment, etc. To be thinking about technique or anything else is an unwanted distraction with unintended (and non-desired) consequences.
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WesternGrizzly
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I think that mental and technical are related in every aspect of the sport. For example when Johan gave the hypothetical situation of someone shooting a room for improvement shot because of trigger control, this has both mental and technical aspects. The technical aspect of the shooter having trigger control that could use refining, could have a mental "backbone". A personal example for me is my standing training/improvement. Being a prone shooter predominantly, I thought that standing was just like prone. I was waiting for the perfect shot and sight picture like I see in prone, this resulted in an overhold, or room for improvement shot release. I needed to train my brain to trust my hold and shoot through my hold with good technique. I will try to map it out how I see it in this personal example:
Before:
Expecting perfect sight picture (mental)-> Room for improvement shot release (technical)-> Room for improvement placement on target (outcome)
Now:
Trusting my hold (mental)-> good shot release (technical)-> good result (outcome)
When training technical aspects (trigger control, hold, wind reading) you are also training the subconscious mind to execute those tasks without thought. Think of the first time you drove stick shift; every movement is thought about consciously: depressing the clutch at the right speed, changing to the correct gear, releasing the clutch with control. But after awhile, you may drive from A-B and never once think about the technical aspects of shifting. This same principle holds true in shooting, when performing at maximal level, there isn't conscious thought put into shooting the shot, the shot just shoots itself. This is how the mental aspect plays into shooting. At least from my point of view.
Matt
Before:
Expecting perfect sight picture (mental)-> Room for improvement shot release (technical)-> Room for improvement placement on target (outcome)
Now:
Trusting my hold (mental)-> good shot release (technical)-> good result (outcome)
When training technical aspects (trigger control, hold, wind reading) you are also training the subconscious mind to execute those tasks without thought. Think of the first time you drove stick shift; every movement is thought about consciously: depressing the clutch at the right speed, changing to the correct gear, releasing the clutch with control. But after awhile, you may drive from A-B and never once think about the technical aspects of shifting. This same principle holds true in shooting, when performing at maximal level, there isn't conscious thought put into shooting the shot, the shot just shoots itself. This is how the mental aspect plays into shooting. At least from my point of view.
Matt
Nice couple of posts above, detailing mental processes and what you can, and can't be thinking about during shot release.
As also mentioned above in this thread is the concept that we can only think of one thing at a time. What you think about affects your shot process and mental state of being. And of course what you think about is down to you to decide (and in many ways train). So based on that concept (which is pretty well universally agreed upon by scientists), if you are anxious then you are thinking of some thought process that induces anxiety. So again based on the concept of the single thought concept, if you fill your mind then it can't think anxiety inducing thoughts. Many people go through visualisation as a pre shot routine. Imagine the perfect shot process from loading the round/pellet and visualise all steps up to a perfect shot release and a perfect outcome (score). When you perform the shot, you just need to switch mental focus to the sight picture (i.e. the foresight and it's relationship to the bull) for the few seconds that you are on final aim.
Rob.
As also mentioned above in this thread is the concept that we can only think of one thing at a time. What you think about affects your shot process and mental state of being. And of course what you think about is down to you to decide (and in many ways train). So based on that concept (which is pretty well universally agreed upon by scientists), if you are anxious then you are thinking of some thought process that induces anxiety. So again based on the concept of the single thought concept, if you fill your mind then it can't think anxiety inducing thoughts. Many people go through visualisation as a pre shot routine. Imagine the perfect shot process from loading the round/pellet and visualise all steps up to a perfect shot release and a perfect outcome (score). When you perform the shot, you just need to switch mental focus to the sight picture (i.e. the foresight and it's relationship to the bull) for the few seconds that you are on final aim.
Rob.
Yogi Berra (American baseball player) who is famous for his lack of ability with the language said, "90 percent of baseball is half mental". But for international rifle shooting "98 percent of shooting is 98 percent mental".
With all due respect to the other posters here there just isn't enough space to even scratch the surface. Every shooter needs to design a mental training course for himself. And there is no small time requirement for this. I would say about an hour a day is the minimum to spend on mental training.
When I was training for shooting I read every book I could find on the subject of mental training and mental discipline and how the mind works. And not just about shooting either. And not just popular books but formal hard to follow psychology.
For example the best book ever written I think is Bill Pullam's Position Rifle Shooting. This book doesn't even touch on positions until about page 160. It is all mental until then. Lanny Basham's Mental Management. Basham even taught a one week class at his home on mental management. Another great book, believe it or not, is Inner Tennis. I don't remember who wrote it but it talks a lot about mental rythmns. If you haven't read at least 2000 pages on the subject you haven't scratched the surface.
Is other words it takes YEARS to go from "can I beat last years champion?" to " can last years champion keep up with me?" That is the primary reason that Olympic champions in shooting are often older that other sports. The physical requirement doesn't change much but the mental prep is huge.
If you want to be a champion you need to either be shooting or thinking about shooting ALL THE TIME.
With all due respect to the other posters here there just isn't enough space to even scratch the surface. Every shooter needs to design a mental training course for himself. And there is no small time requirement for this. I would say about an hour a day is the minimum to spend on mental training.
When I was training for shooting I read every book I could find on the subject of mental training and mental discipline and how the mind works. And not just about shooting either. And not just popular books but formal hard to follow psychology.
For example the best book ever written I think is Bill Pullam's Position Rifle Shooting. This book doesn't even touch on positions until about page 160. It is all mental until then. Lanny Basham's Mental Management. Basham even taught a one week class at his home on mental management. Another great book, believe it or not, is Inner Tennis. I don't remember who wrote it but it talks a lot about mental rythmns. If you haven't read at least 2000 pages on the subject you haven't scratched the surface.
Is other words it takes YEARS to go from "can I beat last years champion?" to " can last years champion keep up with me?" That is the primary reason that Olympic champions in shooting are often older that other sports. The physical requirement doesn't change much but the mental prep is huge.
If you want to be a champion you need to either be shooting or thinking about shooting ALL THE TIME.
So many aspects to the mental side of things. It is a factor for sure. If your mind isn't clear and 100% focused on the shot things aren't going to go well for you.
One of the main things I would recommend is not looking at your score. If you are approaching a personal best and know it you will just add pressure you don't need. Just shoot each shot like a one shot match and whatever your score is at the end is what it is. No need to put undo pressure on yourself to TRY and beat your last best score. Once you TRY you are screwed.
Bo
One of the main things I would recommend is not looking at your score. If you are approaching a personal best and know it you will just add pressure you don't need. Just shoot each shot like a one shot match and whatever your score is at the end is what it is. No need to put undo pressure on yourself to TRY and beat your last best score. Once you TRY you are screwed.
Bo
The mental part of shooting
Best thread I've seen among the shooting forums for a long time,
Equipment, position, breathing & trigger control, etc. are all important, but it seems like the biggest challenge is between our ears.
Positive attitude and ability to focus/concentrate seem to be key.
My best shooting was done during those times that I've felt "in the zone", (i.e, felt completely connected, and at one with the rifle - hey that's kinda Zen-like!!!).
Not an easy feeling to explain, but am sure that many of you know this.
On those days, the shooting seems to happen automatically, a natural function, completely at sync with the rifle.
The rifle is like a living part, an extension of thought and you can simply will each shot to the target.
At such times, I was not worried about (and could have cared less about) technical details.
Equipment, position, breathing & trigger control, etc. are all important, but it seems like the biggest challenge is between our ears.
Positive attitude and ability to focus/concentrate seem to be key.
My best shooting was done during those times that I've felt "in the zone", (i.e, felt completely connected, and at one with the rifle - hey that's kinda Zen-like!!!).
Not an easy feeling to explain, but am sure that many of you know this.
On those days, the shooting seems to happen automatically, a natural function, completely at sync with the rifle.
The rifle is like a living part, an extension of thought and you can simply will each shot to the target.
At such times, I was not worried about (and could have cared less about) technical details.
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John Marchant
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- Contact:
Some really good comments and thoughts in the earlier posts.
There are some times when you get your mental attitude spot on and the shots just seem to flow.
Looking back after the shoot, you get the feeling that you were in total control of your section of the range and that it did not matter what else was going on around you, nothing was going to distract you. As some have said "in the zone".
Most enjoyable when it happens, what is much harder is trying to recreate those conditions for the next visit to the range.
There are some times when you get your mental attitude spot on and the shots just seem to flow.
Looking back after the shoot, you get the feeling that you were in total control of your section of the range and that it did not matter what else was going on around you, nothing was going to distract you. As some have said "in the zone".
Most enjoyable when it happens, what is much harder is trying to recreate those conditions for the next visit to the range.
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ABoyd57946
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Great discussion on a key topic. Here is my 2 cents for whatever it may be worth. As a martial arts master once said, take what is useful and develop from there....
As you may know I am an improving smallbore prone shooter. For me right now the way to improvement is in training increasing my consistency in both the physical position and the mental areas. I am also sensing a needed transition for me to start focusing more on mental training while simultaneously improving a couple recently identified technical errors in dry firing.
In the technical areas I am trying to perfect each individual sub shot process I.e. how to load without taking my cheek off the stock or change pressure, establishing NPA every time, consistent follow through, etc. Abihav Bindra's One Shot At History showed the value of this in my personal opinion. A 10 was not good enough.
In re mental focus I recently started to do autogenic training before I go to sleep nightly to practice muscle relaxation on demand. Obviously this is also a good sleep aid. :)
In re stress management I have used Bassham's With Winning in Mind and Secrets of Mental Marksmanship by Miller and Cunningham to control the mental game and unwanted stress for years. For me it was proven to work in a real situation. At my first National Championship competition in 2009 I was shooting at Ft. Benning, GA when on the 50m prone match my bolt locked up and wouldn't open on shot 7 of 60. Long story short, I used Bassham's teachings for mental pressure management to successfully complete the course of fire in time after the armorer fixed the problem. So it sold me there.
Like I said purely my 2 cents. I think it's more mental than physical but both must be built and cultivated to succeed.
Tony
As you may know I am an improving smallbore prone shooter. For me right now the way to improvement is in training increasing my consistency in both the physical position and the mental areas. I am also sensing a needed transition for me to start focusing more on mental training while simultaneously improving a couple recently identified technical errors in dry firing.
In the technical areas I am trying to perfect each individual sub shot process I.e. how to load without taking my cheek off the stock or change pressure, establishing NPA every time, consistent follow through, etc. Abihav Bindra's One Shot At History showed the value of this in my personal opinion. A 10 was not good enough.
In re mental focus I recently started to do autogenic training before I go to sleep nightly to practice muscle relaxation on demand. Obviously this is also a good sleep aid. :)
In re stress management I have used Bassham's With Winning in Mind and Secrets of Mental Marksmanship by Miller and Cunningham to control the mental game and unwanted stress for years. For me it was proven to work in a real situation. At my first National Championship competition in 2009 I was shooting at Ft. Benning, GA when on the 50m prone match my bolt locked up and wouldn't open on shot 7 of 60. Long story short, I used Bassham's teachings for mental pressure management to successfully complete the course of fire in time after the armorer fixed the problem. So it sold me there.
Like I said purely my 2 cents. I think it's more mental than physical but both must be built and cultivated to succeed.
Tony
Psyche
Johan
probably the most respected sports psycholgist for shooting Heinz Reinkemeier agrees, see his book the "Psyche of the Shot", it is pointless worrying about the mental aspect if you are technically weak.
When you are technically strong most mental problems dissapear.
Good shooting
Robin
probably the most respected sports psycholgist for shooting Heinz Reinkemeier agrees, see his book the "Psyche of the Shot", it is pointless worrying about the mental aspect if you are technically weak.
When you are technically strong most mental problems dissapear.
Good shooting
Robin
Re: Psyche
I disagree with most of that. Mental skills are about performing to your best which is independent of technical ability. That's not to say that novices shouldn't learn technique first and then worry about mental stuff, but all shooters can up their game if they apply the right mental approach. Equally even word level shooters need to train the mental game (and they do). You will see shooters who can't shoot finals well yet can shoot matches almost perfectly - the reason lies between their ears.RobinC wrote:Johan
probably the most respected sports psycholgist for shooting Heinz Reinkemeier agrees, see his book the "Psyche of the Shot", it is pointless worrying about the mental aspect if you are technically weak.
When you are technically strong most mental problems dissapear.
Good shooting
Robin
Rob.
WOW!!
Robin that is amazing. I have never heard anyone say that before. Rob is absolutely right. An athlete must become consciously competent ( that is be able to do something while thinking about how to do it) before one becomes unconsciously competent. That is being able to do something without thinking about it consciously. There is a reasonably interesting treatment of competence on Wikipedia under the 4 stages of competence.
For example, when I swing a golf club I have to think about keeping my head down. Phil Mickelson has done it so many times right he doesn't think about the individual components of the swing while doing it, it seems to just happen. But it took him about 100,000 swings and mental training and work to make it happen. I would refer you to Gary Player's book "Don't Choke."
The truth is the shooting world is littered by the corpses of anonymous shooters who can break a shot on the dot in the center of a 50 meter ten ring. But they can't do it without thinking about every aspect of the shot while they are doing it. They can't do it 60 times in a row. And they can't even do it once with a crowd watching or a big match on the line.
The act of preparing mentally to shoot a match is so much more than being able to shoot a ten it is astonishing that any sports psychologist would actually say that. I would suggest you reread the book you referred to or checked the translation from the German. No sports psychologist would say that conscious competence leads automatically to unconscious competence without any further mental training.
The act of shooting a shot is so complex that the conscious mind can not think about all of them at the moment of the shot. In fact the mind can only think about one thing at a time. Which will it be? Head position, trigger control, sight alignment, wind, relaxation and on and on and on. All these things need to be relegated to the unconscious mind to make them happen successfully and the only way to do that is by training the mind.
Robin that is amazing. I have never heard anyone say that before. Rob is absolutely right. An athlete must become consciously competent ( that is be able to do something while thinking about how to do it) before one becomes unconsciously competent. That is being able to do something without thinking about it consciously. There is a reasonably interesting treatment of competence on Wikipedia under the 4 stages of competence.
For example, when I swing a golf club I have to think about keeping my head down. Phil Mickelson has done it so many times right he doesn't think about the individual components of the swing while doing it, it seems to just happen. But it took him about 100,000 swings and mental training and work to make it happen. I would refer you to Gary Player's book "Don't Choke."
The truth is the shooting world is littered by the corpses of anonymous shooters who can break a shot on the dot in the center of a 50 meter ten ring. But they can't do it without thinking about every aspect of the shot while they are doing it. They can't do it 60 times in a row. And they can't even do it once with a crowd watching or a big match on the line.
The act of preparing mentally to shoot a match is so much more than being able to shoot a ten it is astonishing that any sports psychologist would actually say that. I would suggest you reread the book you referred to or checked the translation from the German. No sports psychologist would say that conscious competence leads automatically to unconscious competence without any further mental training.
The act of shooting a shot is so complex that the conscious mind can not think about all of them at the moment of the shot. In fact the mind can only think about one thing at a time. Which will it be? Head position, trigger control, sight alignment, wind, relaxation and on and on and on. All these things need to be relegated to the unconscious mind to make them happen successfully and the only way to do that is by training the mind.
Actually Robin on rereading your post you are half right.
It IS pointless to focus training on mental aspects of shooting until you are technically proficient.
But that is certainly not the same thing as saying "when you are technically strong mental problems disappear."
They don't disappear, overcoming them becomes even more a part of becoming a champion.
It IS pointless to focus training on mental aspects of shooting until you are technically proficient.
But that is certainly not the same thing as saying "when you are technically strong mental problems disappear."
They don't disappear, overcoming them becomes even more a part of becoming a champion.
I suggest the "Psyche of the shot" as some very usefull reading, Heinz is the man who coaches some of the most succesful shooters in the world, Campriani, Bindra, etc, he is a top level sports psychologist as is his wife.
I have been fortunate to have a day with him recieving some guidance on coaching as he coached my wife, it was very eye opening.
Their book will change your thinking on the mental approach, I heartily recomend it. I'll quote one para,
"We chose to write this book because we feel very strongly that the psychological factor has, in many cases, been blown out of all proportion. really, its no more than a paper tiger. Athletes, coaches, and assistants frantically seek this holy grail, not realizing that it's often much overrated. Taking a more ballanced approach would not only be a great relief to them, but would also generate better results. Some people torture themselves with attempting positive thinking and mental replay. In fact, they would achieve a lot more by focusing on carefully honing their technique."
You need to read the whole book to get the full picture.
I have been fortunate to have a day with him recieving some guidance on coaching as he coached my wife, it was very eye opening.
Their book will change your thinking on the mental approach, I heartily recomend it. I'll quote one para,
"We chose to write this book because we feel very strongly that the psychological factor has, in many cases, been blown out of all proportion. really, its no more than a paper tiger. Athletes, coaches, and assistants frantically seek this holy grail, not realizing that it's often much overrated. Taking a more ballanced approach would not only be a great relief to them, but would also generate better results. Some people torture themselves with attempting positive thinking and mental replay. In fact, they would achieve a lot more by focusing on carefully honing their technique."
You need to read the whole book to get the full picture.
Robin we don't always agree but this time im 100% behind you on this one.
Technical traing improves confidence, confidence improves mental ability and so on. Pschyco regulation can be approached in a similar manner to technical training. Incorporating the two together is what separates the elite from the good.
Psyche of the shot is an outstanding read. it cuts away a lot of the garbage that has been written about being calm under pressure. When it comes to that match winning shot dont ever think your heart rate will be normal and you will be calm it not going to happen! Thats when technical ability to run your shot process comes into play the most.
Technical traing improves confidence, confidence improves mental ability and so on. Pschyco regulation can be approached in a similar manner to technical training. Incorporating the two together is what separates the elite from the good.
Psyche of the shot is an outstanding read. it cuts away a lot of the garbage that has been written about being calm under pressure. When it comes to that match winning shot dont ever think your heart rate will be normal and you will be calm it not going to happen! Thats when technical ability to run your shot process comes into play the most.