http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdsUtBArIZw
11 medalists, 8 in one room, 3 in another room. Rapid fire specialists did not fare as well as AP specialists using air pistol, that is expected.
Women shot as well as men in the knock out format or in this case better, that is also expected in my supercilious opinion.
ISSF knock out round
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What the heck is wrong with that secondary commentator?! He relentlessly, 3 or I think 4 times, went on about how these guys were being 'gentlemen' in "Letting the woman win." He's got white hair, so I guess the excuse might be made that he's of 'that' generation... but truly clueless and rude behaviour to be announcing such nonsense over and over. Chaika shot an excellent match, plain and simple. The rest of the shooters weren't quite so fortunate, though it was a tight match and any of several could have taken it with just a couple of tenths per shot better result. While he may have been attempting humour, repeating it over and over was unnecessary and embarrassing.
What a grueling match. The finals as conducted here provide a great, tough competition. I didn't understand the ladies and gents shooting shoulder to shoulder with the gents, but it was a money ( devils delight ) trophy 1000Euros. I also noticed , which to me was news, it appears that Pardini is now in the AP business----I saw the bars there. AP is the only event I still shoot at my age, as FP is too much of a challenge to my stamina. Nice event, with one exception, the applause as the shooters are in agony to let off a great shot---that was pure BS in my book. As for the elderly gentleman, hey give us white haired ( or bald ) old guys a break. "Doc"
I disagree. The days of "silence please" on shooting ranges needs to be left behind if we are to be taken seriously as an international sport. Bring on the spectator noise I say!Bob-Riegl wrote:Nice event, with one exception, the applause as the shooters are in agony to let off a great shot---that was pure BS in my book.
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David Levene
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I´m with Bob on this one. It's hard enough to shoot in a final without the public chanting like they were in a football match.j-team wrote:I disagree. The days of "silence please" on shooting ranges needs to be left behind if we are to be taken seriously as an international sport. Bring on the spectator noise I say!Bob-Riegl wrote:Nice event, with one exception, the applause as the shooters are in agony to let off a great shot---that was pure BS in my book.
This is a sport that requires a high level of concentration, so in my opinion it doesn't help one bit if there is noise. I also don't think that it contributes to a good image of the sport. Take tennis as an example, you don't ear any noise while the ball is in play...
Or golf. Both are professional sports that have a silence requirement from the galleries that are enforced by the officials.rmca wrote:j-team wrote:...Take tennis as an example, you don't ear any noise while the ball is in play...
The time for noise is when the score is announced over the PA.
My $0.02 on the subject!
High level international sport isn't supposed to be easy, if it was everyone would do it!rmca wrote:I´m with Bob on this one. It's hard enough to shoot in a final without the public chanting like they were in a football match.
This is a sport that requires a high level of concentration, so in my opinion it doesn't help one bit if there is noise.
Which leads to?
j-team: "The days of "silence please" on shooting ranges needs to be left behind if we are to be taken seriously as an international sport. Bring on the spectator noise I say!"
David Levene: "Completely agree."
Given the opinions on spectator noise expressed here, and given the ISSF desire to make our wimpy sport more TV and spectator friendly, maybe it's time for the ISSF to think a bit outside the box. Two words:
CHEER LEADERS!
With the use of cheer leaders, we would get everything that is (apparently) desired. There would be spectator noise, and not just random incoherent noise, but full-throated coordinated singing and shouting. And then the skimpy uniforms of the cheer leaders - men as well as women, of course - would provide the vitally-needed TV appeal, as the cameras could focus on close-ups of the smiling and well-endowed cheer leaders, instead of on the fully clothed, grimly concentrating shooters.
There would have to be some basic restrictions, of course, in order that no competitor would get an unfair advantage: a limit on the number of cheer leaders per shooter, and well-marked spaces for them to occupy, for example. But the idea could be easily implemented, and would probably take only 12 or 13 revisions spread out over 3-4 years for the ISSF to clarify the necessary rule changes.
GO! GO! SHOOT THAT 10 (point 9)
David Levene: "Completely agree."
Given the opinions on spectator noise expressed here, and given the ISSF desire to make our wimpy sport more TV and spectator friendly, maybe it's time for the ISSF to think a bit outside the box. Two words:
CHEER LEADERS!
With the use of cheer leaders, we would get everything that is (apparently) desired. There would be spectator noise, and not just random incoherent noise, but full-throated coordinated singing and shouting. And then the skimpy uniforms of the cheer leaders - men as well as women, of course - would provide the vitally-needed TV appeal, as the cameras could focus on close-ups of the smiling and well-endowed cheer leaders, instead of on the fully clothed, grimly concentrating shooters.
There would have to be some basic restrictions, of course, in order that no competitor would get an unfair advantage: a limit on the number of cheer leaders per shooter, and well-marked spaces for them to occupy, for example. But the idea could be easily implemented, and would probably take only 12 or 13 revisions spread out over 3-4 years for the ISSF to clarify the necessary rule changes.
GO! GO! SHOOT THAT 10 (point 9)
I didn't said it was easy, I said noise doesn't help. And by that I mean that noise doesn't help you to perform better, and hence score better.j-team wrote:High level international sport isn't supposed to be easy, if it was everyone would do it!rmca wrote:I´m with Bob on this one. It's hard enough to shoot in a final without the public chanting like they were in a football match.
This is a sport that requires a high level of concentration, so in my opinion it doesn't help one bit if there is noise.
I would like to see this sport following the path of tennis or golf, in the spirit of an individual sport that requires more brain than body (adjust the percentages of brain/body from tennis to golf to shooting). And making noise to encourage the shooters doesn't seem to work in my opinion. Quite the opposite.
We have to remember that this is a precision sport, and even with TV, that can't be overlooked, or we risk messing it up beyond repair.
Now, if there are cheerleaders involved, forget everything I wrote! :)
Happy New Year everyone!
Golf is somewhat the exception to the rule. Whilst Wimbledon also calls for "Quiet on Court", many of the other major tennis tournaments feature plenty of spectator cheering whilst the ball is in play, and the Bundesliga matches in Germany are - from what I understand - downright boisterous (not to mention the triangle of doom telling to whether you're ahead of your opponent or not!).
I think London has been somewhat of a turning point with a lot of cheering on the qualification range when British shooters were shooting well. This has been noted and is clearly the direction in which the ISSF want to move.
And as for Tennis - that depends which tournament you're at!
This is merely something elite sportspeople have to contend with - the crowd does what it wants when a soccer player lines up for a set-piece or penalty shoot out or a rugby player lines up to kick for a conversion. Those are individual plays rather than team actions, that require just as much concentration as shooting a 10.9 but do you suppose the stadium hushes down to a respectful silence? Not a hope. Sometimes due to the dynamics of that specific crowd it might happen, but frequently the opposition fans will be cheering/jeering to distract the player and the fans cheering to drown that out.
I think London has been somewhat of a turning point with a lot of cheering on the qualification range when British shooters were shooting well. This has been noted and is clearly the direction in which the ISSF want to move.
You speak down Football as a purely team activity - lining up a penalty or try conversion (Rugby) is just as mentally demanding for the individual taking that set piece.rmca wrote: I´m with Bob on this one. It's hard enough to shoot in a final without the public chanting like they were in a football match.
This is a sport that requires a high level of concentration, so in my opinion it doesn't help one bit if there is noise. I also don't think that it contributes to a good image of the sport. Take tennis as an example, you don't ear any noise while the ball is in play...
And as for Tennis - that depends which tournament you're at!
This is merely something elite sportspeople have to contend with - the crowd does what it wants when a soccer player lines up for a set-piece or penalty shoot out or a rugby player lines up to kick for a conversion. Those are individual plays rather than team actions, that require just as much concentration as shooting a 10.9 but do you suppose the stadium hushes down to a respectful silence? Not a hope. Sometimes due to the dynamics of that specific crowd it might happen, but frequently the opposition fans will be cheering/jeering to distract the player and the fans cheering to drown that out.
Last edited by Hemmers on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Well, whilst I am not used to arguing with people on a forum.Those who would cause an uproarious finals, clapping and hooting, must have never competed on a serious basis. Quiet on the shooting line is given in respect to the shooters so as to not interfere with their concentration during their time, let alone 50 seconds to shoot each round in the finals. figuring the scores now given in tenths due to modern timing and scoring. My shooting club is rather strict about xs talking and noise on the firing line, specially when we are shooting either AP and/or FP. Common courtesy for the competitor, anything else may be likened to competition in a billiards game. BTW try and make a sound when a top billiards player is running a string, you will be escorted from the venue rather rapidly. Unless, of course the sainted Olympic competitions turn into a Soccer tournament with requisite rioting. "Doc"[/code]
Absolute quiet on the range does not always have the intended effect.
Back when 10m Running Target was an Olympic event, the officials would insist on absolute quiet - the outcome was that when there was any accidental / incidental sound the sound really stood out and was very noticeable to the shooters.
On the Sydney 2000 range, shots from Rapid Fire Pistol reverberated from the 25m range through to Running Target and those compensated RFP guns were very noisy.
Back when 10m Running Target was an Olympic event, the officials would insist on absolute quiet - the outcome was that when there was any accidental / incidental sound the sound really stood out and was very noticeable to the shooters.
On the Sydney 2000 range, shots from Rapid Fire Pistol reverberated from the 25m range through to Running Target and those compensated RFP guns were very noisy.
In finals at World cup that I've been at, when the local shooter shoots quickly and scores a good shot, the local crowd cheers, regardless of whether the other 7 finalist are still aiming or not.Bob-Riegl wrote:Well, whilst I am not used to arguing with people on a forum.Those who would cause an uproarious finals, clapping and hooting, must have never competed on a serious basis."[/code]
I agree with Spencer, absolute silence can be more distracting than when it's noisy. Small sounds stand out.
Anyway, it's only the lesser competitors that are distracted, the good ones just get on with it.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Really? World Championships, European Championships and Commonwealth Games (to name a few) serious enough for you?Bob-Riegl wrote:Those who would cause an uproarious finals, clapping and hooting, must have never competed on a serious basis.
If you train in silence then you are setting yourself up for a fall in a big competition.
To add to my previous posting*, I would note that for most disciplines the new finals involve 2 or 3 shot strings. Unlike the old system where you were waiting for a single shot and could cheer if it was good when the score flashed up, the finals are now shot in strings - so your champion shoots 2-3 shots, and their opponent fires theirs, and then depending on how good the range information screens are you're possibly doing a bit of math to work out who was better.
Easier to just cheer the whole way through!
* Which I wrote primarily with Qualification in mind to be honest - most disciplines which involve 50+ minutes of continuous shooting with no obvious break points for cheering, aside from RFP which has discrete bursts which can be anticipated by the crowd and silence held until the string is fired. For that reason, cheering when your shooter has a good shot, even whilst others are shooting is the only way to demonstrate support.
I could concur with Spencer - certainly when I'm at squad training the coach makes no particular effort to talk quietly with other athletes (not that he can - we're wearing ear defenders remember!).
There's always going to be some noise. Silence on a shooting range is impossible - whether it's noise from other ranges, range officers conferring, media shuffling around, a shooter conferring with their coach or fumbling around with their kit for the next stage of a 3P shoot, or indeed outright cheering.
And this is no different to other sports - the Umpire at Wimbledon might call for quiet on Centre Court, but he has no control over the crowd on the Hill outside who are watching the big screen (not to mention they're under the flight path to Heathrow). Similarly a golfer taking a putt has no control if the crowd on another green go wild and the cheering can be heard on their "quiet" green.
There is always background noise, even when you're pretending that "silence" has been called for.
I do find it interesting that people train in silence - even at non ISSF events like the Roberts Final (British Prone Championship - a double dewar - 40 shots at 50m, 40 shots at 100yds), people aren't standing around silent for 2 hours. They're wandering up and down, talking amongst themselves, a plane from Heathrow might come over, someone might start shooting fullbore up on Stickledown or shooting clays at the NCSC. Some of that is background burble, some is intense and attention-grabbing. Why would you not prepare for that as part of your training?
Easier to just cheer the whole way through!
* Which I wrote primarily with Qualification in mind to be honest - most disciplines which involve 50+ minutes of continuous shooting with no obvious break points for cheering, aside from RFP which has discrete bursts which can be anticipated by the crowd and silence held until the string is fired. For that reason, cheering when your shooter has a good shot, even whilst others are shooting is the only way to demonstrate support.
I could concur with Spencer - certainly when I'm at squad training the coach makes no particular effort to talk quietly with other athletes (not that he can - we're wearing ear defenders remember!).
There's always going to be some noise. Silence on a shooting range is impossible - whether it's noise from other ranges, range officers conferring, media shuffling around, a shooter conferring with their coach or fumbling around with their kit for the next stage of a 3P shoot, or indeed outright cheering.
And this is no different to other sports - the Umpire at Wimbledon might call for quiet on Centre Court, but he has no control over the crowd on the Hill outside who are watching the big screen (not to mention they're under the flight path to Heathrow). Similarly a golfer taking a putt has no control if the crowd on another green go wild and the cheering can be heard on their "quiet" green.
There is always background noise, even when you're pretending that "silence" has been called for.
I do find it interesting that people train in silence - even at non ISSF events like the Roberts Final (British Prone Championship - a double dewar - 40 shots at 50m, 40 shots at 100yds), people aren't standing around silent for 2 hours. They're wandering up and down, talking amongst themselves, a plane from Heathrow might come over, someone might start shooting fullbore up on Stickledown or shooting clays at the NCSC. Some of that is background burble, some is intense and attention-grabbing. Why would you not prepare for that as part of your training?