I just looked through the manual and it says to only use the "special grease" to lube the rifle but it doesn't point out all the places that need it. I know all the pivot points I can find on the lever etc but are there any other places where a bit of grease should be applied now and then on these rifles?
Do you lubricate the bolt probe part that slides back into the action when you cock it with a thin coat of grease?
Rifle is shooting fine but I want to keep it that way and I want to make sure I am not overlooking anything.
Thanks,
Bo
Anschutz 8002 S2 lubrication.. Any tips??
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
8002 Lubrication Maintenance
I just bought a used 8001 that was purchased by the original owner in August of this year. It does not look like it was shot at all. There is what looks and feels like a light oil lube on the bolt probe that slides back into the action and some kind of dark lubricant on the threads of the cylinder. I do not know if the factory did this or the short term previous owner. There is the same dark gray lubricant on the scuba tank fitting threads. My ancient 2002CA bought used many years ago never had any evidence of lube anywhere.
I am also curious about any maintenance, cleaning and lube that the upper level 10m Air Rifle competitors perform and on what kind of schedule? Do the top competitors just turn their rifle over to the armourer when they feel something is not right with their rifle and do no preventative maintenance at all?
I am also curious about any maintenance, cleaning and lube that the upper level 10m Air Rifle competitors perform and on what kind of schedule? Do the top competitors just turn their rifle over to the armourer when they feel something is not right with their rifle and do no preventative maintenance at all?
I have just been lubing the bolt. The air cylinder comes with anti seize grease. I just looked at the manual, and it said to wipe the steel parts with oil, but it was pretty vague. Since I was on Anschutz's web page, I submitted the question to the repair division. I actually think I asked them before and they said just send it to a qualified gunsmith. I just asked what to lube, and when to have a rebuild. If and when they reply I will post.
It's very frustrating to me that the European manufactures can't put together a simple and proper owners manual. You spend thousands of dollars on their products and get instructions that say "lubricate when necessary" and use "appropriate lubricants".
When is it necessary?
What are the proper lubricants?
Where are these lubricants supposed to go?
I mean really now, I should not have to go out to forums to get this info, that is oft times contradictory anyway. It should be in a provided manual and it should be on their websites.
When is it necessary?
What are the proper lubricants?
Where are these lubricants supposed to go?
I mean really now, I should not have to go out to forums to get this info, that is oft times contradictory anyway. It should be in a provided manual and it should be on their websites.
Thanks for the replies. And yes I wish they would give more info about their products. I guess they don't want anyone messing with them to much. So I will just lube it where I think it needs it when I think it needs it till it dies! Then I will send it in to be re-sealed. I've got at least 15000-20000 pellets through it now and it still looks like the day I got it and shoots like it too. I never leave it with air pressure on the regulator and back off the air cylinder. IMO this is the biggest issue with earlier than normal wear on things. So make sure when you are done shooting for the day you back off the cylinder and bleed the reg.
Bo
Still looking for input from anyone else if you know of any areas and lubes. I use the FWB special grease myself.
Bo
Still looking for input from anyone else if you know of any areas and lubes. I use the FWB special grease myself.
My daughters 2002CA was just rebuiilt yesterday after Winter Airgun.
Chuck is using "SuperLube" synthetic grease from Synco.
It is available online and in many hardware stores.
http://www.super-lube.com/synthetic-mul ... zp-49.html
The 1/2 oz tube is nice for a shooter to put in their gearbag.
I have a 3oz tube in my coach bag that I also use on .22 bolts.
Chuck is using "SuperLube" synthetic grease from Synco.
It is available online and in many hardware stores.
http://www.super-lube.com/synthetic-mul ... zp-49.html
The 1/2 oz tube is nice for a shooter to put in their gearbag.
I have a 3oz tube in my coach bag that I also use on .22 bolts.
lubrication advice
very minimal lube necessary as was noted by pilk guns if you overlube and have to send it out for repair he is the one you will send it to
The standard Super Lube is a petrol based product. They do make a silicone based Super Lube if that's needed.
Super Lube's literature lists many materials used in seals and gaskets that are not affected by their product. Does anybody know what material is used in air gun seals?
Super Lube's literature lists many materials used in seals and gaskets that are not affected by their product. Does anybody know what material is used in air gun seals?
Last edited by DLS on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dieseling is only a problem on springer guns. It's the flash of high temperature caused by the rapid compression of the air in the reservoir that sets off the lubricant, not pressure per se.Grape712 wrote:No petroleum based lubes not even vasoline they will diesel under the high pressures and explode
None of the guns we are talking about are springer's so the flashing of the lube is not an issue here, but it's good to know about the problem none-the-less.
Well, yes and no. You are really comparing two opposite affects.
Compression of a gas causes the gas temperature to increase due to the friction between the gas molecules. Decompression of a gas causes the opposite affect, the gas is cooled. That cooling property of decompressing gas is how your air conditioner cools the air in your home or auto.
The compression of a springer is as rapid as the piston flying down the cylinder after the sear releases it during the shot. It's extremely rapid and the resulting compression / time curve create quite a jump in temperature. This jump in temperature is enough to flash some flammable lubricants (dieseling). Hence the very wise warning to not use these types of lubes in springer guns.
While the same level of compression occurs in say a SSP, it's over a much longer period of time so the resulting increase in temperature is far less, and remains below the flash point of petrol based lubes. Even if you were to pump the gun as fast a humanly possible, the compression / time curve is spread over too long of a time for the temperature to rise to a flash point. The mass of the gun can absorb the increasing temperature faster than you can create it by manually pumping.
On the other hand, the near instant transfer of pressure in your CA (assuming you mean PCP here) example actually causes a decrease in pressure and a resulting decrease in temperature, the gun actually cools during the shot. While the pressure in the barrel momentarily increases, the decrease in pressure in the reservoir that is charging the barrel is much more pronounced and totally negates any tiny temp increase you may find in the barrel.
I hope this helps.
Compression of a gas causes the gas temperature to increase due to the friction between the gas molecules. Decompression of a gas causes the opposite affect, the gas is cooled. That cooling property of decompressing gas is how your air conditioner cools the air in your home or auto.
The compression of a springer is as rapid as the piston flying down the cylinder after the sear releases it during the shot. It's extremely rapid and the resulting compression / time curve create quite a jump in temperature. This jump in temperature is enough to flash some flammable lubricants (dieseling). Hence the very wise warning to not use these types of lubes in springer guns.
While the same level of compression occurs in say a SSP, it's over a much longer period of time so the resulting increase in temperature is far less, and remains below the flash point of petrol based lubes. Even if you were to pump the gun as fast a humanly possible, the compression / time curve is spread over too long of a time for the temperature to rise to a flash point. The mass of the gun can absorb the increasing temperature faster than you can create it by manually pumping.
On the other hand, the near instant transfer of pressure in your CA (assuming you mean PCP here) example actually causes a decrease in pressure and a resulting decrease in temperature, the gun actually cools during the shot. While the pressure in the barrel momentarily increases, the decrease in pressure in the reservoir that is charging the barrel is much more pronounced and totally negates any tiny temp increase you may find in the barrel.
I hope this helps.
I wrote this earlier but my internet connection died on me. I'll post it as is as the first part of my reply as I do not wish to retype it.
I know that the thread is referring to SSP's, but I have see dieseling effects from a couple of different PCP rifles. I know that it should not be possible for either an SSP or PCP rifle to diesel, but blue smoke was definitely coming from the barrel of both of these rifles after firing. The two rifles in question were different makes as well, a FWB 700 and a Walther LG300. In both cases it was when using cheap Geco pellets (these are club rifles so used by beginners). When using better quality pellets (RWS R10) the problem went away. I can only assume there was some sort of mineral oil lubricant that was on the pellets to cause this to happen.
When it comes to changes of temperature with the compression/decompression of gases things do not always seem to work the way one would expect. When transferring air from a large scuba type cylinder (12l 300Bar) to the rifle cylinder (in this case a Walther steel cylinder from an LG400) the overall pressure in the system is less, so the temperature should decrease. The air is actually expanding into the smaller cylinder, yet it gets noticeably warmer as if you had compressed the air using some form of compressor. Simply venting the air from the fill tank will cause it to drop in temp and when I have vented a tank that needed emptying before refilling it got very cold dumping 9l down from 150 bar to ambient pressure.
Now an airgun that is using a spring and piston to compress something in the region of 50 cc or so of air to around 100Bar in only a couple of hundred milliseconds is going to produce peak temperatures well into the hundreds of degrees celsius, certainly enough to ignite any petroleum based lubricants that may get into the chamber. Infact it was thought for many years that a large proportion of the energy produced by higher powered guns of this type was down to controlled dieseling (See the Books by Cardew for the details). This has been disproven by later research and is now something we do not want to happen as it causes premature wear to the rifle.
Alan
I know that the thread is referring to SSP's, but I have see dieseling effects from a couple of different PCP rifles. I know that it should not be possible for either an SSP or PCP rifle to diesel, but blue smoke was definitely coming from the barrel of both of these rifles after firing. The two rifles in question were different makes as well, a FWB 700 and a Walther LG300. In both cases it was when using cheap Geco pellets (these are club rifles so used by beginners). When using better quality pellets (RWS R10) the problem went away. I can only assume there was some sort of mineral oil lubricant that was on the pellets to cause this to happen.
When it comes to changes of temperature with the compression/decompression of gases things do not always seem to work the way one would expect. When transferring air from a large scuba type cylinder (12l 300Bar) to the rifle cylinder (in this case a Walther steel cylinder from an LG400) the overall pressure in the system is less, so the temperature should decrease. The air is actually expanding into the smaller cylinder, yet it gets noticeably warmer as if you had compressed the air using some form of compressor. Simply venting the air from the fill tank will cause it to drop in temp and when I have vented a tank that needed emptying before refilling it got very cold dumping 9l down from 150 bar to ambient pressure.
Now an airgun that is using a spring and piston to compress something in the region of 50 cc or so of air to around 100Bar in only a couple of hundred milliseconds is going to produce peak temperatures well into the hundreds of degrees celsius, certainly enough to ignite any petroleum based lubricants that may get into the chamber. Infact it was thought for many years that a large proportion of the energy produced by higher powered guns of this type was down to controlled dieseling (See the Books by Cardew for the details). This has been disproven by later research and is now something we do not want to happen as it causes premature wear to the rifle.
Alan
Hello Alan,
I have no clue as to how ignition could have occurred with the lower quality pellets. Are you sure the blue smoke was actually a product of combustion and not some other "issue" stemming from the pellets themselves? If you really did have combustion the flammable elements would have to be set off by friction as the temperature would not get anywhere near a flash point temperature.
Over the entire system the thermal energy remains the same, the increase in the smaller cylinder is offset exactly by the decrease in the larger cylinder. We are talking total units of energy (choose whatever you like) not the temperature of the cylinders as the temperature is a function of both the amount of energy transferred and the mass of the object gaining or loosing the energy.
It's pretty amazing how much thermal difference can be had when compressing or decompressing a gas isn't it?
Interesting conversation ... thanks for your insight!
I have no clue as to how ignition could have occurred with the lower quality pellets. Are you sure the blue smoke was actually a product of combustion and not some other "issue" stemming from the pellets themselves? If you really did have combustion the flammable elements would have to be set off by friction as the temperature would not get anywhere near a flash point temperature.
This is as it should be. The air in the smaller cylinder (LG400) is actually being compressed during the fill, and as such it warms up. The pressure in the master cylinder is dropping, and it cools down. The mass of the LG400 cylinder to air is a fraction of the mass of the master cylinder to air. So you will notice the warming quite handily, but you would be hard pressed to notice the cooling of the master cylinder even if you had your hand on the bottle. It would take a quick read thermometer to detect most likely.When transferring air from a large scuba type cylinder (12l 300Bar) to the rifle cylinder (in this case a Walther steel cylinder from an LG400) the overall pressure in the system is less, so the temperature should decrease. The air is actually expanding into the smaller cylinder, yet it gets noticeably warmer as if you had compressed the air using some form of compressor.
Over the entire system the thermal energy remains the same, the increase in the smaller cylinder is offset exactly by the decrease in the larger cylinder. We are talking total units of energy (choose whatever you like) not the temperature of the cylinders as the temperature is a function of both the amount of energy transferred and the mass of the object gaining or loosing the energy.
Simply venting the air from the fill tank will cause it to drop in temp and when I have vented a tank that needed emptying before refilling it got very cold dumping 9l down from 150 bar to ambient pressure.
It's pretty amazing how much thermal difference can be had when compressing or decompressing a gas isn't it?
Yep!Now an airgun that is using a spring and piston to compress something in the region of 50 cc or so of air to around 100Bar in only a couple of hundred milliseconds is going to produce peak temperatures well into the hundreds of degrees celsius, certainly enough to ignite any petroleum based lubricants that may get into the chamber.
This I did not know. It makes sense that some might think that this helped, but anybody who shoots cast lead bullets in centerfire rifles would immediately worry about base deformation / vaporization with the pure lead used in air rifle ammo. Cast bullet rifle shooters use very hard alloys and cover the base of the bullet with a gas check to protect them from gas cutting etc. Otherwise leading and accuracy become a real problem. Unless of course you keep the velocities very low.Infact it was thought for many years that a large proportion of the energy produced by higher powered guns of this type was down to controlled dieseling (See the Books by Cardew for the details). This has been disproven by later research and is now something we do not want to happen as it causes premature wear to the rifle.
Interesting conversation ... thanks for your insight!
DLS if you are at all interested in how spring piston airguns in particular work then there have been a very good series of articles published in the UK magazine Airgun World. I believe there is an online version that you can subscribe to, and that includes around the last two years worth of articles. The work has been done by a full Professor of Engineering at a British University (can't recall which one) and they include all the math! Very interesting reading, even if you do not bother with following the math closely.
Alan
Alan
I use only silicon based lubes, Super Lube included. Although I think the FWB Special Grease might be a lithium based lube. Stay away from any powder burner lubes with any petroleum content as the seals are not spec'ed for those and it can cause seals/o-rings to fail from being dissolved into a gunk.
The powder burner oils for wiped down the externals and any bluing is just fine but nothing internal.
The powder burner oils for wiped down the externals and any bluing is just fine but nothing internal.