For those attending Winter Air next week, has anyone confirmed if the boot flexibility rule/test will be enforced ?
If so, how are you modifying boots to conform ?
Winter Air Gun Rules Question
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Marc Orvin
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:23 am
- Location: Colorado
According to Rule 7.5.2.3 Clarification by USAS, "Shooting shoe flexibility will not be adopted. Athletes making any USAS teams will be expected to comply with this rule before any travel with the team."
These rules are on the USAS website and the download is free. If you are planning on attending WAG, it would behoove you to have them handy.
These rules are on the USAS website and the download is free. If you are planning on attending WAG, it would behoove you to have them handy.
There still seems to be some question on if boot flex will be tested. Marcus responded to my email on the question and said flex would not be tested. However, the parent of another shooter told me that Dave Johnson said flex would be tested and enforced. ??????
As for what to do.... I plan to do nothing until equipment check. If they are testing we will have my daughters boots tested as is. They may or may not pass... if they don't but are close, I've been told to just work the toe area back and forth by pushing it on the floor. If that does not work, use a hack saw to cut a slot part way through the sole at the ball of the foot.
I don't know what they are going to do, but I will have my hacksaw handy just in case!
As for what to do.... I plan to do nothing until equipment check. If they are testing we will have my daughters boots tested as is. They may or may not pass... if they don't but are close, I've been told to just work the toe area back and forth by pushing it on the floor. If that does not work, use a hack saw to cut a slot part way through the sole at the ball of the foot.
I don't know what they are going to do, but I will have my hacksaw handy just in case!
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Guest
There seems to be confusion all around. Our club was told by Tyler or Pete that all rules except the stitching will be enforced since this was a selection match just as they will be enforced at National Junior Olympics. They will have the flex testor onsite during eq check, which is the same thing as what was used in Ft. Benning.
As for the fix? I wish I knew more on that subject.
We're bringing everything but there should be lots of people there with different eq modifying tools. I think Larry with 10.9 will be there also.
As for the fix? I wish I knew more on that subject.
We're bringing everything but there should be lots of people there with different eq modifying tools. I think Larry with 10.9 will be there also.
Marc .... the issue is that the match program states:Marc Orvin wrote:According to Rule 7.5.2.3 Clarification by USAS, "Shooting shoe flexibility will not be adopted. Athletes making any USAS teams will be expected to comply with this rule before any travel with the team."
These rules are on the USAS website and the download is free. If you are planning on attending WAG, it would behoove you to have them handy.
However, the red lined "USA Shooting" rules state that certain ISSF rules will not be enforced by USA Shooting. SO, going strictly by the match program AND what current USA Shooting rules state, they SHOULD NOT BE ENFORCING the ISSF rules that they have red lined in their own rules .... well, except if you use boolean logic and they have stated they will not be enforcing a rule they are not enforcing in their rules, i.e. -->+they WILL enforce the LSJ seam rule.Current USA Shooting Rules will govern this competition. The only rule that WON’T be enforced will be the seam rule (USAS Rule 7.5.4.5). All other rules shall be enforced. It is the shooters responsibility to be familiar with these rules.
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After discussions with them I >>think<< (as it all can change the day we all show up) they mean they will be enforcing all ISSF rules except the LSJ seam rule. No one seems to want to bite the bullet and state exactly what the double negative in their match program means.
They have trouble understanding that words have exact meanings and they messed up the match program.
It's two years into the quad .... I think they should get rid of ALL the red lined exceptions in the USA Shooting version of the rules and go with ISSF rules ... well, unless ISSF has just come up with more new rules/restrictions.
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mdickinson
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:10 pm
- Location: United States
Please do not cut your sole. Your sole has to remain one solid piece. Cutting it just makes your boots illegal again.rmarsh wrote: If that does not work, use a hack saw to cut a slot part way through the sole at the ball of the foot.
I don't know what they are going to do, but I will have my hacksaw handy just in case!
Obviously, after going through EC, they did test flexibility.
I think the only part that sucks about the current rules are the sole edges. People were buying brand new boots in the main lobby and literally walking directly to the grinder to grind down the edges and "round" them out. Yes, now they meet the rules, but you no longer have brand new looking boots. Seems like a waste of money.
Cutting a slot partially thru the sole is not illegal, in fact it is one of the recommended fixes. The other is to drill a series of holes (partially thru the sole) across the flex point ...
As one of those on EC at winter airgun, I was very surprised that almost all of the new boots did not pass flexibility ... (we were giving courtesy warnings)
Some of these new boots had an insert in the sole across the flex point that, to me is iffy as it was not of the same material as the rest of the sole.
Glad USAS is not testing flex at JOs ... They are testing roundness ....
The new Sauer boots need rounding on the sole of the heel. They are flat ... While it does follow the contour of the upper boot, there is still the flat spot that needs a gentle curve put on it.
I explained to many people that the note that comes with the boot explaining that it is ISSF legal means nothing when the boot is put on the machine & fails flex (in many different tries of the configuration in the machine) and has a flat spot on the heel.
Same with the jacket manufacturers ... assurances from them that they are ISSF legal means nothing if your support elbow comes down right on a seam out on the line and the match enforces that silly rule.
Now ..... those that like to push the system, the new rules that ISSF is putting into place may help .... EC is voluntary (except for Jacket & Pants).
Tests done on those in the final, and other random competitiors may allow you to sneak thru .... but if you are popped, it's too bad.
As one of those on EC at winter airgun, I was very surprised that almost all of the new boots did not pass flexibility ... (we were giving courtesy warnings)
Some of these new boots had an insert in the sole across the flex point that, to me is iffy as it was not of the same material as the rest of the sole.
Glad USAS is not testing flex at JOs ... They are testing roundness ....
The new Sauer boots need rounding on the sole of the heel. They are flat ... While it does follow the contour of the upper boot, there is still the flat spot that needs a gentle curve put on it.
I explained to many people that the note that comes with the boot explaining that it is ISSF legal means nothing when the boot is put on the machine & fails flex (in many different tries of the configuration in the machine) and has a flat spot on the heel.
Same with the jacket manufacturers ... assurances from them that they are ISSF legal means nothing if your support elbow comes down right on a seam out on the line and the match enforces that silly rule.
Now ..... those that like to push the system, the new rules that ISSF is putting into place may help .... EC is voluntary (except for Jacket & Pants).
Tests done on those in the final, and other random competitiors may allow you to sneak thru .... but if you are popped, it's too bad.
Joel, thanks for answering the comment about cutting the boot soles being illegal. I did not think it was illegal since I have seen some shooters who have shot in World Cups and other international matches with slots cut in their boots. Fortunately, our boots passed so it was not an issue.
I guess all we can do is just be patient. Since everyone appears to be fully implementing the new rules (except the jacket seam) this season, by mid summer we will all have a good idea of what is acceptable and what is not. Until then, just be prepared to make changes on the fly. Yes, its a pain to have to sand the soles on a new pair of boots, but once you wear them they are not "new" anymore are they! :) At least USAS made the sander available to everyone so it ended up not being that big of a deal.
I guess all we can do is just be patient. Since everyone appears to be fully implementing the new rules (except the jacket seam) this season, by mid summer we will all have a good idea of what is acceptable and what is not. Until then, just be prepared to make changes on the fly. Yes, its a pain to have to sand the soles on a new pair of boots, but once you wear them they are not "new" anymore are they! :) At least USAS made the sander available to everyone so it ended up not being that big of a deal.
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mdickinson
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:10 pm
- Location: United States