QUESTION

RED RAIDER · Post by **RED RAIDER** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:39 pm

Excuse my ignorance, I am new at this. I have seen several shooters using a folding measuring device to place their feet in standing position. I have scoured the internet looking for one. Can't find it anywhere, and don"t know what it is called. Please help.

COBelties · Post by **COBelties** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:12 pm

We use Carpenters Rulers from Lowes or Home Depot.

rmarsh · Post by **rmarsh** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:04 pm

Yep, just a plain old wooden carpenters ruler. Available at any hardware store. Probably the only inexpensive piece of equipment used in this sport!!! I've been waiting impatiently for MEC to come out with a really cool machined aluminum one (in colors of course) for $400 or so! ;) ;) I wonder if I can get a commission for the idea!

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:53 pm

rmarsh wrote:Probably the only inexpensive piece of equipment used in this sport!!!

Cheaper!

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:34 pm

I've seen pistol shooters doing something like that.

Losers!

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:24 am

MEC would sell the wooden ruler as "vintage distance-meter" for a much higher price... ;)

(although I'm pretty sure that MEC resp. the shooters coached by Heinz Reinkemeier and Gaby Bühlmann were the first to use this trick even in competitions - I've seen and heard a lot of giggling and laughs around the spectators in the first months then, but now nobody laughs about it any more).

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:29 am

COBelties wrote:We use Carpenters Rulers from Lowes or Home Depot.

Wooden ruler or normal tape measure as per builders use. I've seen rifle shooters use both, but it's a waste of time for pistol shooters.

Rob.

BigAl · Post by **BigAl** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:31 pm

I even know of some shooters who use the ruler even in the prone position. It improves the odds that if you leave the firing point for any reason that you can go back to the exact same position. As all of the coaches at the clubs I shoot at say: Technique, Technique, Technique! Being consistently and accurately aligned on the center of the target (not necessarily the firing point) is a vital step in the process of building a stable repeatable technique. I'm sure it could be of help to pistol shooters as well as those shooting rifle.

Alan

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:47 pm

Consistent is absolutely right but measuring your feet is not the right way to acheive that in pistol. Your muscles and tendons change and stretch in position during a 1 1/2 match hence what's right at the start won't be right later. That's one of the reasons you never see pistol shooters measure it, at major matches.

I would also suggest it's the wrong thing to do in prone for the very same reason. You should position yourself such that your NPA is pointing to the centre of the bull and you do that looking through the sights not at a ruler or mark on the ground.

Rob.

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:05 am

Nothing new, like german Karl Wenk explained, when he shot the first 600 out of 600 points in smallbore-prone some decades ago: "You shoot a ten, and then you simply repeat that procedure 59 times"!

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:42 am

That would be at least 55 years ago. Alister Allan shot the first 600 prone on the 1958 targets at the 1981 European Championships.

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:57 am

and Karl Wenk already in 1967 on the 1958 targets - but after a quick research it has been only german record, because he shot it at the german championships 1967, which does of course not count as UIT/ISSF record. The german record was higher than the then world record, but who cares - sorry for any confusion.

Which doesn't change the truth in his quote...

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:58 pm

Rob is SO much more sympathetic than I. I can see he agrees with my point of view, but my advice, too, is, "Fugedaboudit!"

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:23 am

Rover wrote:I can see he agrees with my point of view, but my advice, too, is, "Fugedaboudit!"

Neither you or Rob seem to be talking about the same thing as the OP was asking about.

This is the rifle forum and he was talking about the standing position.

It is certainly far from unusual for rifle shooters at the very top level to use a tape or rule in the standing position.

It's always possible that, with your "Fugedaboudit!" advice, you know something about competition standing rifle shooting that they don't, but somehow I doubt it ;-)

BigAl · Post by **BigAl** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:53 am

As Ulrich said, shoot a ten then shoot some more, and once you've shot 60 of them you have your 600 (or however many shots you need to fire in a match). The ruler really helps in the Rifle standing position. We use the folding sort that you can unfold to make an L shape. The place that should be on the exact centerline of the target, when you are exactly at 90 degrees to the target is marked on the ruler (or the correct measurement is noted) and is placed accordingly on the FP. This is not always in the center of the FP at least at many clubs here in the UK, or even in the Lord Roberts Center at Bisley. You can then simply line the feet with the correct marks on the long arm of the ruler to achieve perfect position every time you shoot. Even for a beginner having them stand on the centerline of the target consistently, and being able to place the feet consistently (even if this is evolving quite quickly) definitely speeds the development of the rifle shooter at least. Due to my health I now have to shoot AR seated, and I even measure out the placement of the seat that I use on the firing point. If I set the chair an inch out of place then get everything else right then the group will also be an inch out in the same direction. It also helps to be able to see if ones feet have moved when you cannot feel them properly.

In the prone position the rule can also help although it is used more to indicate the center of the target rather than aligning oneself with the center of the firing point. The first step in getting a consistent NPA is to ensure that you are actually getting down into position with the correct alignment with the target. Of course a lot of prone shooters are using shooting mats and will place those on the firing point carefully first for exactly the same reason, they are using the mat in the place of the ruler, just using features on the mat instead of using the markings on the ruler.

Technique, Technique, Technique, and you can start that by standing/kneeling/laying in the same place relative to the TARGET every time.

Alan