Is this the end of Hämmerli AP40?

[tirpassion]

Hello friends,

It seems that the Hämmerli AP40 is finally destined for oblivion.
I went through the Walther website recently and found that the AP40 is no more in their list. There is an icon on the top right stating AP40 pistols but when you click on it there is nothing. The accessories are still listed though.

I am a bit sad because I am a big Hämmerli fan, having two AP40s (one swiss made with alu barrel and the other one of Walther make) and a FP60. It is a pity that this excellent AP never really had the proper recognition from big names and in the big events.
And now, this is the end...

I only hope that Walther will assure the service and spare parts, if needed, will be available in the long run.

Experts, AP40 fans, please share your views.

regards
tirpassion

[brent375hh]

I thought the end of all Hammerli was when Walther bought them.
It's too bad, I was a big fan of the real Hammerli items.

[conradin]

Walther should utilize and market Haemmerli properly. Perhaps get Haemmerli into the free rifle 300M business.

[Spencer]

Walther should utilize and market Haemmerli properly. Perhaps get Haemmerli into the free rifle 300M business.

wonder why they choose to ignore that mass market?
There must be millions of customers lined up with credit card at the ready; all trying to push past the million or so buyers desperate for a new Running Target rifle.

[yana]

Hammerli has been a disaster spare parts and service wise anyway, since they're become part of Umarex, which is the lead company iirc.
Walther is part of it too.

According to our dutch Hammerli importer, they feel Hammerli will stop existing any day now..:(
I had an alu barrelled AP40. Very nice pistol (allthough too light up font)

[tirpassion]

I got both my AP40s serviced, one in 2012 and the other in 2013 during the French national championships where Walther technicians were present during the whole event. The question is, will they continue to do so a few years from now?

You are right Yana. For my alu barreled AP40, I use the barrel weights (the full 60g) and I even intend to get a heavier weight made. But for the steel barreled walther made AP40, I do not use any weights.

regards
tirpassion

[Spaceball]

I think that Hammerli has become Walther's "budget" line of firearms.
They stopped production of the AP40 as it competes with the LP300 / LP400. They then introduce a cheaper entry level model.
The new Hammerli AP20 is almost 1/2 the price of the LP400 in Australia. The AP20 can be upgraded with LP400 grips, sights and cylinder and other parts.

[daotoys1]

I think that Hammerli has become Walther's "budget" line of firearms.
They stopped production of the AP40 as it competes with the LP300 / LP400. They then introduce a cheaper entry level model.
The new Hammerli AP20 is almost 1/2 the price of the LP400 in Australia. The AP20 can be upgraded with LP400 grips, sights and cylinder and other parts.

Sadly I tend to agree with you on this point. I think that it was done so Walther could raise their perceived level of quality as a better pistol than the renowned Swiss manufacturer Hammerli.

Walther could have keep Hammerli as a top of the line product, as a premium firearms as it had always been. But instead Walther takes Hammerli out of competition with Walther, and they have demoted it to the entry level target pistols of lesser quality and lesser value. This is a shameful and insulting thing to happen to the superb Hammerli line. It would have been better if Hammerli went out of production while they were still a world class manufacturer. Now Hammerli is going to be considered a cheap entry level target gun. How sad that the king of the hill has tumbled down to the base of the mountain.

Similar examples have happened when rival manufactures have merged after a buy out of one by the other. If Hammerli ( or the Swiss) had bought out Walther maybe the situation would have been reversed where Hammerli would maintain its high standards of quality, only to have the quality of the Walther products to suffer.

Its a somewhat common practice that effectively takes out one of the competition, and also provides the use of an already well established name to be used to launch and/or sell a product of lesser value that is not in competition for sales with the firm who buys out the other brand.

Examples like this can be found in the world of manufacturing well outside the field of firearms. Alls fair in love and war ???? Walther and Hammerli had many years of well established rivalry and it looks like finally Walther has won the war.

DAO

[Tycho]

But then we bought out RWS, so the Germans don't have their own ammo anymore :-D

[Mike M.]

Not Walther. Umarex, which owns both firms. And apparently bought Hammerli mostly as a trade name.

[daotoys1]

Not Walther. Umarex, which owns both firms. And apparently bought Hammerli mostly as a trade name.

BINGO.......you said it......Hammerli was purchased for a few reasons ( IMHO), to buy and use the (trade) name , and perhaps to remove them from the competition ( this might not have been an initial decision that effected the purchase of the brand, but it sure turned out that way).

What I wish had happened would be for Hammerli to remain in Switzerland if at all possible, but more importantly that hammerli to continue to produce and R&D top of the line world class and class leading firearms.

Its truly a sad thing to see a noble brand disintegrate and fall from grace.

:(

[Tycho]

Many people expected Umarex to make a business with Hammerli spare parts, for those thousands of pistols still in use around the planet, but apparently they were not even smart enough for that. One could get rich doing that.

[daotoys1]

Many people expected Umarex to make a business with Hammerli spare parts, for those thousands of pistols still in use around the planet, but apparently they were not even smart enough for that. One could get rich doing that.

It probably was considered but was not done because of the difficulty involved. It would take a lot of work and time and money to set up a production line for spare parts for so many models ( Hammerli has made quite a few different models over many many years).

Also there would be the need to create a hugh parts inventory for all of those thousands of parts for world wide distribution ( luckily Walther already has a well established importer/ dealer network that could start to carry the Hammerli parts line, just like they are doing with the Hammerli firearms)

Another problem is that Hammerli, just like many small manufacturers did not make all of their gun parts themselves. In fact quite a few of the gun parts were contracted out to other various manufacturers throughout Switzerland ( and other European locations....but mostly Swiss to conform to Swiss gun laws).

There would be a need to reestablish a parts producing down line where there contracted components could be made again and then be brought to the central hub of the parts distributing network.

This is a lot of work. I think that the new owners looked at this and simply decided that the cost to do this was not profitable ( if they cant make enough money profit for all of this effort, then why bother).

Just like almost all businesses, its all about profit. I seriously doubt that Hammerli's new owners cared at all about keeping the brand truly alive. And I dont think they care if Hammerli parts are available for all of the old Hammerli guns in the world ( that is unless there was enough money it it for them for them to care).

DAO

[Tycho]

You don't get me. I'm not talking about the intentions of Walther / Umarex, but what people here were expecting. It could have been a huge business, if it had been done right. Alas, they f****d it up, the stock there was was sold at rock bottom prices across the world, and now they are shutting it down. So what, the world will continue to turn.

[FredB]

Every older Hammerli pistol kept functional by Umarex providing spare parts for it potentially means one less new Umarex (Walther) pistol sold. Unlike Hammerli - the older Swiss Hammerli - Umarex is a modern company, run according to modern business principles. In this case, that means planned obsolescence as opposed to building products meant to endure for generations. It's the triumph of the MBAs.

Sadly,
FredB

[Tycho]

Forget that. They know as well as anybody that thousands of shooters are just plinking away and will never buy a new pistol. Target pistols are "handed down" and usually in use for 20+ years. Why do you think all those 208 are still running? And, btw, all those GSP? And do you believe tha a shooter who expected to get some spares for his Hammerli or Walther, and is disappointed because they turn out to be unavailable, will stick to exactly that company? Or go the Italians? I'd rather sell some spares and accessoires instead of losing the customer connection. That's called marketing. Q.e.d., baby.

[tirpassion]

Yes, it is out of sheer grudge that I will buy an Italian/swiss made weapon once my AP40 goes out of service. One out of the Walther trap.

[conradin]

Yes, it is out of sheer grudge that I will buy an Italian/swiss made weapon once my AP40 goes out of service. One out of the Walther trap.

For AP you can buy Pardini, Matchguns, and Steyr.
For AR you can just stick with FWB
For FP you can just stick with Morini
For FR you can just stick with Anschutz FWB and Bleiker
For CFP stick with Pardini and Benelli
For SP and STP Pardini, Morini FWB and Matchguns
For 300FR Bleiker and Kepeler
For Bullseye just stick with S&W and Ruger products.

Of course you don't have to buy these brands, this is merely example.

Hence you certainly do not need to buy any Walther, Haemmerli, and Colt to compete and be competitive.

[FredB]

Forget that. They know as well as anybody that thousands of shooters are just plinking away and will never buy a new pistol. Target pistols are "handed down" and usually in use for 20+ years. Why do you think all those 208 are still running? And, btw, all those GSP? And do you believe tha a shooter who expected to get some spares for his Hammerli or Walther, and is disappointed because they turn out to be unavailable, will stick to exactly that company? Or go the Italians? I'd rather sell some spares and accessoires instead of losing the customer connection. That's called marketing. Q.e.d., baby.

Tycho,

As pistol owners, neither one of us is happy about what happened. You claim that Umarex made a bad business decision. I believe only time will tell about that; however I was pointing out that their decision followed modern MBA-mediated business practise.

I don't think either one of us knows what "thousands of shooters" will do, but I do know that the majority of new shooters asking the inevitable "what's the best gun" question on TT seem to gravitate towards the latest, most tricked-out models (in spite of Rover). And the more experienced shooters on TT almost always advise them, if they want to buy used, to buy a gun that's in current production, for parts availability and factory service.

As far as brand goes, the shooter wanting to "upgrade" is most likely to buy the latest and greatest, no matter where it's made. And if all the major companies follow the planned obsolescence pattern, the buyers switching company will all even out.

FredB

[slofyr]

... the majority of new shooters asking the inevitable "what's the best gun" question on TT seem to gravitate towards the latest, most tricked-out models...

People always seek what makes the task easier. Never mind that it questions the credibility of their result.