any Hammerli experts out there?

mgh · Post by **mgh** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:47 pm

So I want to get a Hammerli AR20, but I see 2 models, and AR20 with iron sights, and an AR20 FT, with scope. Anyone know if they are the exact same rifle with the exception of the sights? I cannot find a direct comparison of the two, but wonder if the FT has a higher velocity.

I actually want iron sights, and will be target shooting, though not competing. The only place I can find the AR20 is Champion's Choice. The AR20 FT is available from a few vendors, and is less money, but I'll bet I could spend a lot of money to get a good set of iron sights.

Anyone have some insights/info?

Many thanks.

bpscCheney · Post by **bpscCheney** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:52 pm

The FT has a different regulator to put out a velocity of around 800 fps IIRC while the original non FT version is around 580 fps. Other than the regulator and the sights I believe the rifles are identical but I only have seen the AR20 non FT model so I couldn't say for sure if everything else is the same. The reg for sure is different.

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:25 am

Apart from the different regulator: The AR 20 uses a square barrel shroud, on which the front sight is mounted, the AR 20 FT has a normal round barrel. You then would need a special clamp to fix the front sight. The back sight/diopter would fit onto the dovetail-rail (11 mm) on the housing, any height adjustments (because of the missing shroud) should be possible by clicking the diopter.

Also the tanks are different: the AR 20 in aluminium for approx 350 shots (7,5 Joule for target shooting). This is of course a bit lighter that the steel tank in the AR 20 FT, which is capable of 400 shots in 7,5 joule and 180 shots in the 16 joule version (the AR 20 is only available in 7,5 Joule). In general the FT version weights approx 500 g more than the target version.

Any other features like stock-adjustment or the T-shaped rail for slings should be identical (I have no actual samples in reach at the moment, sorry...)

Technical data:
AR 20 FT: http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang= ... oduct=1326

AR 20 Silver Pro: http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?lang= ... oduct=1715

The difference of the Silver Pro and the "normal" Silver in germany is the better diopter sight of the Pro (Walther instead of Gamo), but I'm not sure which versions are exported...

Update: This one looks fine and covers both desires:
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... highlight=
and a washing machine is also included...

JSBmatch · Post by **JSBmatch** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:43 am

Is the AR-30 still made and would that be worth looking at?

mgh · Post by **mgh** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:39 pm

Many thanks for the replies.

I think the AR20 is the one for me. I want the iron sights, and do not need the extra velocity of the FT. I have no need of a scope at all.

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:06 am

JSBmatch wrote:Is the AR-30 still made and would that be worth looking at?

Worth looking at in any case, if you find a second hand one. The production of the WALTHER AR-30 stopped around two years ago, it was replaced by the Hämmerli AR 20 (which has a lot of AR-30-features, but is made in a complete different way, like the loading lever, the housing or the stock design. These clever details are based on the former Hämmerli AR 30, which was sold only a short time. Could be called the "Hämmerli heritage", because they have been developed still in Switzerland).

UPDATE: (a bit confusing - so I've added some names; during the "transition" from Hämmerli Switzerland to Hämmerli/Walther in 2006 they mixed the model names and numbers a bit)

SUMMARY:
Hämmerli AR-30 (Swiss) = okay, but possibly trouble to get spare parts
Walther AR 30 (with 300-bar-tank instead 200 and new valve) = quite okay, good trigger, excellent performance (= valve function)
HÄMMERLI AR 20 = new model, only looking like a AR-30-derivate