I have an issue when I shoot prone. I check my NPA and is completely relaxed and when I shoot the recoil goes straight up and goes straight down but it stops a little above where I was aiming before the shoot. This is pretty consistent.
Last night I finished my prone training with 20 shots where I focused on being relaxed and I finsished with 198-13x and every bad ten or nine was low. In these low shots the recoil did come back to my point of aim before the shot.
For me it feels like these "bad shots" that went out of the ten or on the edge of the ten was the correct ones because of the nice recoil. and the rest that went in the middle was faulty because of the recoil that didn't come back to my point of aim before the shot.
Is there any fault that can generate such recoil problems. So I can get a hint for where I should look for problems.
Recoil in prone
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
I'm thinking aloud so this may be garbage but bear with me...
Recoil not coming back to where it started suggests to me something in the position is not tight. So there is a minute slippage somewhere on each shot.
It's certainly not unheard of for shooters to be shooting mostly erroneous shots, but to be fair I'm more used to seeing it in pistol than rifle.
All I can suggest is you go though your entire shot process and check it's good. So for example smooth triggering, consistent breathing and shot release timing. Consistent state of relaxation / tension, throughout gun placement and positioning in the shoulder etc.
Rob.
Recoil not coming back to where it started suggests to me something in the position is not tight. So there is a minute slippage somewhere on each shot.
It's certainly not unheard of for shooters to be shooting mostly erroneous shots, but to be fair I'm more used to seeing it in pistol than rifle.
All I can suggest is you go though your entire shot process and check it's good. So for example smooth triggering, consistent breathing and shot release timing. Consistent state of relaxation / tension, throughout gun placement and positioning in the shoulder etc.
Rob.
The thing is that the last 10 shots where really tight with 7x and 5 of them 10,5 but it doesn't feel like it's possible to go the whole way in prone if the recoil isn't perfect.
I have thought of that it is something that gives in the shoulders and therefore makes the rifle point higher after the shot. I know that I was completely relaxed on these shots because I did have full focus on that.
I have thought of that it is something that gives in the shoulders and therefore makes the rifle point higher after the shot. I know that I was completely relaxed on these shots because I did have full focus on that.
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Martin Catley
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Recoil
Did you perhaps "relax" too much on those shots hence going low? Just a thought.
My thoughts on losing low or high shots are as follows:
1. Lifting of the forearm to bring rifle onto the target after breathing out. This is a fault of many beginners and one that can creep into the most experienced. The mental anguish of trying to wean oneself off the near unconcious lifting can take months to cure.
2. Breathing past the target and doing the opposite to 1,- holding the rifle down onto the target. Again, truly working on the NPA can fix this but again, it takes time. Working on what is really the comfortably empty lungs position needs time and effort to control.
3. Butt plate not positioned in shoulder. I feel there is little doubt that raising and lowering the butt in the shoulder can influence the high/low fall of shot. Again, it is the near unconcious lifting or lowering the butt to alter the elevation at the NPA can give these high/low shots. Keep a wary eye on where and how you place the butt into the shoulder. Check each and every shot.
1. Lifting of the forearm to bring rifle onto the target after breathing out. This is a fault of many beginners and one that can creep into the most experienced. The mental anguish of trying to wean oneself off the near unconcious lifting can take months to cure.
2. Breathing past the target and doing the opposite to 1,- holding the rifle down onto the target. Again, truly working on the NPA can fix this but again, it takes time. Working on what is really the comfortably empty lungs position needs time and effort to control.
3. Butt plate not positioned in shoulder. I feel there is little doubt that raising and lowering the butt in the shoulder can influence the high/low fall of shot. Again, it is the near unconcious lifting or lowering the butt to alter the elevation at the NPA can give these high/low shots. Keep a wary eye on where and how you place the butt into the shoulder. Check each and every shot.
Re: Recoil in prone
"I check my NPA and is completely relaxed and when I shoot the recoil goes straight up and goes straight down but it stops a little above where I was aiming before the shoot."
Bear with me thinking out-loud here - am I understanding this correct, your missed shots are falling low, but your recoil is ending high? I can't say this would make sense to me altogether, but perhaps it's something separate.
First the low shots, A simple thing to focus on might be your breathing control - where are you shooting in your breath cycle? Wherever you break the shot, make sure you're not "relaxing" through your follow through. I like to break my shot with a "1/4" breath left in my lungs. This keeps enough in reserve to release slowly through my follow through. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it works for me.
With the recoil ending high, I would think the shots would land high. If your recoil is ending high, something in your position is keeping you high, however minute it may be. I often have my NPA correct (my sight is centered) but my recoil is off... I would check sling tension to start with.
Hopefully this helps... just my 2 cents worth.
Bear with me thinking out-loud here - am I understanding this correct, your missed shots are falling low, but your recoil is ending high? I can't say this would make sense to me altogether, but perhaps it's something separate.
First the low shots, A simple thing to focus on might be your breathing control - where are you shooting in your breath cycle? Wherever you break the shot, make sure you're not "relaxing" through your follow through. I like to break my shot with a "1/4" breath left in my lungs. This keeps enough in reserve to release slowly through my follow through. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it works for me.
With the recoil ending high, I would think the shots would land high. If your recoil is ending high, something in your position is keeping you high, however minute it may be. I often have my NPA correct (my sight is centered) but my recoil is off... I would check sling tension to start with.
Hopefully this helps... just my 2 cents worth.
Okay I think there is some problems with my english skills and therefore there have been a little missunderstanding here.
The shots that did produce good tens (inner ten) all had the recoil ending a little high. This was the majority of shots.
The shots that did go into a bad ten(less than 10,3) and good nines (9,9) all had a recoil that was perfect. Because the recoil did end exactly where I was aiming before the shot, these shots were low.
I did adjust the sights in the sighting shots before the 20 shot string after the majority of shots with the recoil ending a little high.
I'm not really concerned of what point the shots did produce. It's the difference in recoil and the changing POI with that difference that concerns me. Making good score when all the other is perfect is just a matter of turning the sight adjustment screws.
I try to shot in my "natural respiratory pause".
I will check this thing next time I shoot prone and try to isolate where the problem comes from. With full focus on follow through and watching how the recoil behaves.
The shots that did produce good tens (inner ten) all had the recoil ending a little high. This was the majority of shots.
The shots that did go into a bad ten(less than 10,3) and good nines (9,9) all had a recoil that was perfect. Because the recoil did end exactly where I was aiming before the shot, these shots were low.
I did adjust the sights in the sighting shots before the 20 shot string after the majority of shots with the recoil ending a little high.
I'm not really concerned of what point the shots did produce. It's the difference in recoil and the changing POI with that difference that concerns me. Making good score when all the other is perfect is just a matter of turning the sight adjustment screws.
I try to shot in my "natural respiratory pause".
I will check this thing next time I shoot prone and try to isolate where the problem comes from. With full focus on follow through and watching how the recoil behaves.
Johan,
I think that the reason for what you describe,is that the butt plate goes a little down in your shoulder because of recoil.this is why it ends above the point of aim.
In some shots,the butt plate stayed in place,so you got a perfect recoil and a low shot. I would suggest that you tighten your position a bit. You can do it in few ways,like shortening the sling (one hole) and taking the handstop towards the muzzle (half cm). Another option is to take the upper part of the buttplate further out,so you will have more pressure on the upper part of it,thus avoiding the buttplate to move down with recoil.
Guy.
I think that the reason for what you describe,is that the butt plate goes a little down in your shoulder because of recoil.this is why it ends above the point of aim.
In some shots,the butt plate stayed in place,so you got a perfect recoil and a low shot. I would suggest that you tighten your position a bit. You can do it in few ways,like shortening the sling (one hole) and taking the handstop towards the muzzle (half cm). Another option is to take the upper part of the buttplate further out,so you will have more pressure on the upper part of it,thus avoiding the buttplate to move down with recoil.
Guy.
Guy,
I will check the upper part of the buttplate first because that was something that crossed my mind earlier and it sounds like a possible problem for me.
I recently got my new shooting clothes and therefore the feeling have changed in all position and I've been forced to do some tweaking on the rifle. The positions is more solid now so it feels like now I have the possibility to adjust the rifle more exact than before.
I will check the upper part of the buttplate first because that was something that crossed my mind earlier and it sounds like a possible problem for me.
I recently got my new shooting clothes and therefore the feeling have changed in all position and I've been forced to do some tweaking on the rifle. The positions is more solid now so it feels like now I have the possibility to adjust the rifle more exact than before.
A little update. I actually ended upp with all three things that Guy mentioned to tighten up my position.
I did it in steps with moving the handstop about 5mm forward first, it got a little better but not good. I then adjusted the top part of the buttplate and it got a little better but when I did that I noticed that the buttplate was a little wiggly in my shoulder and needed to move the lower part also. It got a little better still but when I did tighten the sling with one notch it felt really good.
After I tightened the sling I did shoot 20 shots and the recoil is better and the result where pretty good with 200-15x. I did this at the end of my training session and had shot a 3x40 before so I wasn't completely fresh in my mind or body so I need to evaluate it more next time I shoot prone.
I did it in steps with moving the handstop about 5mm forward first, it got a little better but not good. I then adjusted the top part of the buttplate and it got a little better but when I did that I noticed that the buttplate was a little wiggly in my shoulder and needed to move the lower part also. It got a little better still but when I did tighten the sling with one notch it felt really good.
After I tightened the sling I did shoot 20 shots and the recoil is better and the result where pretty good with 200-15x. I did this at the end of my training session and had shot a 3x40 before so I wasn't completely fresh in my mind or body so I need to evaluate it more next time I shoot prone.
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livcyxingfoe
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- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:30 am
The shots that did go into a bad ten(less than 10,3) and good nines (9,9) all had a recoil that was perfect. Because the recoil did end exactly where I was aiming before the shot, these shots were low.
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