Walther lp300 Club Pistol vs fbw p11 Piccolo

[kdarwood]

Does anyone have any experience with these pistols? I'm a newbie looking for an entry level PCP pistol and would appreciate any thoughts from those who have shot them. Would they be worth my money, or should I buy a higher quality used pistol? Thanks!

[Tycho]

About the only thing those two share is the calibre and the fact that they use compressed air. Otherwise, designed for completely different usergroups, not comparable at all. If price is your main criteria, you'll fall on your face for sure. Sorry to be blunt, but instead of asking questions that have been answered hundreds of times, I'd read through TT first, and go and try out whatever you can get your hands on. Otherwise you'll end up buying at least four different APs (like most of us) and spending a ton.

[kdarwood]

I did a search and didn't find much on these two pistols and that's why I asked specifically about them. As I stated before, I am a newbie and that's why I'm seeking the advice of people who have "been there and done that". I realize the "which pistol should I buy" question has been asked way too many times, but my search results on various forums haven't produced very much information on the two pistols I was inquiring about. Maybe that should tell me something?! I just want to make sure I'm spending my money wisely by getting the best advice I can. I can find many reviews on the upper end pistols, but with a budget of 1K and preferrably lower, it's proven to be more of a challenge. I don't have any clubs near me to be able to try out different guns, so I'm relying on people with first hand knowledge. I don't mind you being "blunt", so no harm done. I'd rather have someone be "blunt" and give me the most honest answer they can.

[j-team]

Assuming that you are a normal sized adult, I'd buy the Walther LP300 club. The FWB P11 Picollo is more aimed at kids (rich ones!).

Also, if you decide it's not for you, or you decide to upgrade at some later date, I would think the Walther will be easier to sell.

[John C]

There's not much on the P11 Piccolo on this forum. I know, because I looked extensively before I bought one.

I'm a low-intermediate AP shooter, with experience on several different pistols, but I've never seen a Walther LP300. However, I've shot the P11 Piccolo extensively, and have some thoughts.

I'll elaborate later today.

-John

[Avery]

I had lp300 Club
It is fine pistol, ported barrel, 300 bar cylinder. Many top shooters use its big brother - lp300 XT. I think it is good choice with 1000$ budget. Have not shoot FWB Piccolo, but it looks like as gun for children. Very light and has only 80 shoots per cylinder.

[kdarwood]

I've recently been offered the Walther LP300XT and I was curious what would be a fair price to pay for it. It appears to be in excellent condition. Thanks!

[John C]

I bought a used P11 Piccolo a few months ago. My son, who's turning 8, expressed an interest in AP. Separately, my wife also expressed interest. My wife is left eyed, and my son right eyed, so I needed an ambi grip. I needed the lightest pistol possible. Finally, I'm unable to shoot my C55 in my garage in the wintertime, due to the low temperatures. That combination made the time right to buy a new pistol.

I purchased the Piccolo, and started shooting it. It's an excellent pistol. I like the light weight. It's very accurate. The ambi grip is a plus, since I can use the pistol for other practice besides 10M AP.

I was also interested in trying out a short pistol. It seems that a growing number of top shooters are shooting the short versions of the top pistols. I do find the pistol easy to shoot. I haven't shot a match with it, yet, but scores in my garage range are on par for me. I haven't noticed the short sight radius affecting much of anything. It is a light pistol, but that has made long shooting sessions easier, if anything.

The only thing you're giving up going to the P11 is a recoil absorber. In my case, I've hardly shot a pistol with one, so I don't notice the lack. I'm not sure the Walther 300 club has one, either.

The P11 is partially upgradeable. I lucked into a large P44 grip, and so I ordered the adapter which allows the sight to fit the grip. When I get it all together, I'll have a super-short P44 (without recoil compensation).

If you're buying new, the P11 is $1299 from Pyramyd Air, maybe a little cheaper from ISS. The Walther Club is $1179 from Champion's Choice. If you don't need an extra small ambi grip, the choice is pretty obvious. I wanted a youth sized pistol, so for me it was either a P11 or a Pardini KID. I found a used P11 Piccolo, so that's what I bought.

Good luck!

-John

[deadeyedick]

Great reply John.

[John C]

I should note that the P11 Piccolo ambi grip is very shootable. Although the grip would probably be classified as small or extra small, I shoot it just fine. My hand fits a large grip from Pardini and FWB. I need to make sure that my grip is correct every time, and it's possible to grip it incorrectly, but it's not unlike shooting a regular, non target pistol. It's obviously not on par with a nice target grip. But it's a nice compromise.

The adaptability would make this an excellent club gun or youth gun. A youth could shoot this gun for a while before upgrading the grip to a P44 grip.

-John

[jipe]

The P11 is a simplified short light version of the flagship P44. It is aimed at kids.

The LP300 club is a cheap package version (made for shooting clubs) of the LP300 which is now discontinued and replaced by the LP400.

Actually, the P44 is much better than the LP300 which is now little bit obsolete (trigger not that good, heavy...).

If you are looking for a cheaper but full match grade AP, you can also look at the Steyr LP2 and Hammerli AP40 (Hammerli now belongs to Walther). You should however avoid Rohm and Tesro.

When you compare prices, don't forget to check the number of cylinder delivered with the pistol. While in the past almost all pistols were delivered with two cylinders, most pistols are now delivered with only one cylinder. This is the trick used by FWB for instance to (slightly) reduce the price of the P44.

[Neon21]

.... LP300 which is now discontinued and replaced by the LP400.

where did you get the info the the LP300 Series is discontinued?

Actually, the P44 is much better than the LP300 which is now little bit obsolete (trigger not that good, heavy...).

it's maybe much better for you, but the P44 is not better then the LP300 on the paper.. (for example, the LP300 was also shot at the Olympic Games)

You should however avoid Rohm and Tesro.

ok, Röhm is a producer for non-competition guns, but Tesro makes good pistols (then owner of Tesro formerly was the chief engenieer at Walther..), so what brings you to this statement?

Every pistol shots a hole of a 5.5 to 6mm diameter with the right ammo.
There are no "bad" pistols out there if you buy a new one.

BUT there are APs that fits you, and some that are not.
The AP will find you, you just have to try them out..

And, if you're a beginner without any experience, buy a used gun, shoot a half year and then try different pistols.
Otherwise you don't know what you prefer.
I thought the LP300 was the best pistol for me (I tried 5 different APs), but now I noted that the LP400 suits better (in terms of trigger and balance)..

[jipe]

If you like the LP300 and if it fits for you, then its OK.

But on paper as you say, the trigger graph of the LP300 is quite poor, the stability of the pressure regulator isn't very good (may be because with the 300 bar it must cover a much wider range of input pressure than with 200 bar), the pistol balance isn't very good, it is heavy and its 3D grip has no memory (each time you remove the grip, you must readjust the grip position) and is fragile.

If you compare with the P44, the trigger of the P44 is much better, the output pressure of the regulator is very stable, the pistol balance is great and with its lightweight it can be adapted without making the pistol too heavy.

And, FYI, I don't use a P44, I use an LP10.

Yes, Andrija Zlatic and Vladimir Isakov use an LP300 XT but at least Vladimir Isakov is sponsored by Walther, he switched to the LP400.
Now, if you select your pistol based on what pistol top shooters use, the choice is easy, the LP10/LP10E is by far the most used pistol at the highest level followed by the Morini CM162EI, all the others are very far in term of percentage of top shooters that use them.

As you recognize yourself, the trigger and balance of the LP400 are much better. But not only that, the whole pistol is a great leap forward, 3D grip with memory, back to 200 bar, lightweight, great sights (but its a pity that they require tools for adjustments, cannot understand why Walther didn't put knobs usable without tools like on all other AP's including the LP300).

As far as I know, only the LP300 club is still available, probably to offer a cheaper option because the LP400 is undoubtedly much better but is also much more expensive. From my experience, if you want to stay in the "Walther family" but cannot afford an LP400, the Hammerli AP40 is better than the LP300.

For the Tesro, yes, it is inspired by the Walther with similar weaknesses + a bad grip and quite a lot of reliability issues with the cylinders. There were also no evolutions since its introduction on the market (the only evolutions were cosmetic, the last one to give him a LP400 and LP10 look).

About testing AP's, you must be careful because the fit of the pistol depends also a lot of the adjustments that fits for you or don't. It is possible that a pistol seems better than another just because its adjustments are by accident better for you. The opposite can also happen, a pistol seems not to fit because the adjustments are very bad for you.

[GregZ]

John C,

You said "I lucked into a large P44 grip, and so I ordered the adapter which allows the sight to fit the grip."

Can you please post the FWB part number for this adapter? The only possibility I see is 3.4.340.260, but the descriptions do not mention fitting other grips. I have a P11 with an ambi grip that I would like to upgrade to a P44 grip.

Thanks very much,
Greg

[Brian James]

You should however avoid Rohm and Tesrook, Röhm is a producer for non-competition guns, but Tesro makes good pistols (then owner of Tesro formerly was the chief engenieer at Walther..), so what brings you to this statement?

Has Tesro been sold and what thise mean for existing customers?

Brian

[Neon21]

Tesro hasn't been sold,
it's a Company without any subsidiary or parent company.