New Air-Rifle rules (Chest support and weights)

[Hon]

A friend of mine forwarded the following to me:


CHEST SUPPORT WEIGHTS ON AIR RIFLES, RULES 7.4.2.6, b & 7.6.1.2

The 2013 ISSF Rules clearly state that chest support weights (sometimes advertised as “Brustanlagen”) that project forward from the lower part of butt-plates on 50m rifles are illegal and cannot be used (Rule 7.4.5.1, d.). Questions have been raised regarding whether these chest support weights can, nevertheless, be used on air rifles. The answer is NO, chest support weights cannot be used on air rifles. The intent of the ISSF Rifle Committee is that these weights cannot be used on any rifles. 7.4.2.6, b. states that any weights on air rifles other than barrel weights “must be within the dimensions of the stock.” Chest support weights do not comply with this rule. Rule 7.6.1.2 that defines the standing position makes it clear that “the rifle must not touch the jacket or chest beyond the area of the right shoulder.” Chest support weights that project forward from the lower butt-plate potentially violate this rule as well. Chest support weights that are attached to 50m rifle or 10m air rifle butt-plates are illegal.



My question is I am using a FWB wood stock 700. Can my right chest touch the stock during the shooting? I found it impossible not to.

My next question is I stuck wheel balance lead on the side of the butt plate and underneath the cheek piece. None of them protrude outside the dimension of the stock. Think Lubov Galkina. Is it still allowed?

Can a weight be fitted rear of the cheek peice under the new rule?

Thanks.

[JSBmatch]

I'm not sure about the 700 wood stock touching your chest rule, but I did see a shooter who's Walther LG-300 alu pistol grip was touching and part of the lower grip had to be cut back to allow a bit of space between grip and chest.

[RobStubbs]

You'd have to read the rules in detail to find out about the stock touching your chest but I'd suspect it isn't legal. The only reason I say that is because the hand cannot touch the chest/jacket, so it would seem to be the same to me, but you'd need to check or ask an experienced a A class rifle judge.

Rob.

[Grzegorz]

You'd have to read the rules in detail to find out about the stock touching your chest but I'd suspect it isn't legal. The only reason I say that is because the hand cannot touch the chest/jacket, so it would seem to be the same to me, but you'd need to check or ask an experienced a A class rifle judge.

Rob.

I am only a B class rifle judge :-) so accept please just few comments after EC in Odense. This has been discussed in detail.
Chest support weights that are attached to a butt-plate are illegal. That's the rule, but ... some shooters just moved weights up a little and used a tape to cover a gap between weights and stock, saying - it is within the dimensions of the stock :-) The problem is, that wooden stock is wider and obviously touches a right part of a chest, close to a shoulder. Why aluminium stock users should be punished? That is the point. But the rule is fixed. We have to follow it.

Concerning touching a left chest (usually it is a left one) with a grip or fingers. It is illegal and it has been illegal before! The problem for us, judges, is to verify if a shooter indeed violates the rule or not. Shooters, when being under control during a preparation time, usually move the hand about few milimeters and they... do not touch a chest. During a match shots it is rather difficult to verify that without disturbing a shooter so we must give up. From other point of view, I remember one Iran female shooter (WCup Final) that looked like supporting (not only touching) a grip by chest. During PET I notified here coach, that she must be sure to not do that during competition (I had remembered that she had the same problem also earlier). He smiled and said - After your verbal warning a few months ago we worked on that a lot. Take a look in detail. So, I verified, and found that indeed they profiled a grip perfectly to follow a jacket shape with all its "topography" with a gap about 3 mm(!).

Described situations show how difficult is to judge such cases. I even do not mention some famous shooters that are extremally smart, so you cannot prove they support a grip by a chest...

My question is I am using a FWB wood stock 700. Can my right chest touch the stock during the shooting? I found it impossible not to.

My next question is I stuck wheel balance lead on the side of the butt plate and underneath the cheek piece. None of them protrude outside the dimension of the stock. Think Lubov Galkina. Is it still allowed?

Can a weight be fitted rear of the cheek peice under the new rule?

If you would be controled by me:

1. Yes, your right chest may touch a stock (assuming, no additional weights are attached to a lower part of the butt-plate).

2. Yes, this is no problem to me (according to rule 7.4.2.3)

3. Yes, it may be fitted rear of the cheekpiece, BUT I suggest - provide, it does not extend further to the rear than a deepest point in the butt-plate (this in fact is written for 50m rifle only, but could be extended on air rifle, as the rule about weights in lower part of the butt-plate).

So, just my two cents :-)

[RobinC]

I think you'll find that the final rules print does not include the ban on chest rests in 7.4.5 or 7.4.5.1.
It was in the initial summary that caused all the upset, and I believe it was one of the few things withdrawn.
You may use a chest rest weight on both a 50 mt or an air rifle as long as they are clearly with in the overal outline of the rifle. The chest weight is merely making an alloy stock up to the shape of a wood stock and the regulation outline as long as it stays inside the profile. It would of course not be possible to use a chest rest on a wooden stock as it would be outside the profile.
You may touch the rear part of the stock against your chest it is the pistol grip or trigger hand that must not touch.
Weights must now stay inside stock profile.

[RobStubbs]

Nice summaries Greg and Robin !

I have not studied the rules in detail (being predominantly a pistol shooter), I just know one of my teams rifles shooters was pulled up by the jury in last years european airgun championships, but this was due to his trigger hand touching his jacket. This was spotted in PET, which is when most such checks are conducted.

Rob.

[robf]

Badly worded rule again.

You can't stick weights on a wooden stock because it's outside it's stock dimensions, but you can on an Ally one because it's not?

So I assume if you made your own stock, that would be ok as well?

You'll end up with polystyrene stocks allowing anyone to put any weight where they like as long as it's within the overall competition dimensions.

[RobinC]

I presume that if the wooden stock was inside the rule shape profile then you could add a chest weight as long as it did not exceed the rule profile, its just that most wood stocks are close to the profile and the chest rest is part of the natural stock whilst the ally stocks have a big space.

I had two pairs of boots reprofiled today for the new rules and took in a copy of the rules to show the man and even the shoe repairer said "that rule is ambigious!"

[robf]

Agreed Robin. I suspect that is the case. The loophole about bipods/dual weights though is still there. When is something something and when is it something else?

It would be easier if the ISSF just stuck to the limits of their stock dimension rather than keep mentioning 'the' stocks dimensions.

There's quite a few rules which have loopholes, yet to be exploited, but there all the same. They seem to just accept what is manufactured over what is modified.

[redschietti]

"Concerning touching a left chest (usually it is a left one) with a grip or fingers. It is illegal and it has been illegal before!"

This rule is difficult for some female shooters to comply with. Cant change anatomy. It would be so much easier if the ISSF would allow the butt plate to be a couple cm lower. This would raise the gun above the problem area and give quite a bit of clearance...

[Grzegorz]

This rule is difficult for some female shooters to comply with. Cant change anatomy. It would be so much easier if the ISSF would allow the butt plate to be a couple cm lower. This would raise the gun above the problem area and give quite a bit of clearance...

Not necessary in fact... It is enough a shooter shoots in a more open position. There are plenty shooters having no problem with that (for example Agnieszka NAGAY (POL) who after OG Beijing (because of the rule that was emphasized) completely switched to open position, and made a final in London in spite of that change. Simply, there must be any coach who tell a shooter: - Just do it!