Shots grouping consistently to the left

[vHoff]

For the past few months, I've been struggling with an issue in 10m air pistol where my shots will consistently group to the left.

This is true, even when I adjust my sights.

I am a bit stumped about what is going on, since I have tried multiple solutions and they do not seem to be working.

Initially, I thought it was an issue with my stand and natural point of aim so I tried having a more closed stance but that has not really helped the problem.

I also thought it may have been due to tensing up my pectoral muscle and shoulder muscle (I am a right handed shooter) but I still have the issue even when I am actively focusing on keeping those muscles relaxed.

I do not think I am jerking the trigger since they are consistent groups as opposed to a scattering of shots to the left. Could it be due to placement of my finger on the trigger? Am I wrapping my hand too far around the grip?

I am going to try to continue experimenting, but I was wondering if anybody had come up against this problem before.

I've attached some pictures of some groups from a match this weekend. Apologies, they are bad cell phone pictures of a black and white score printout.

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Rob]

If you practice at home, turn the target around and shoot at a blank piece of paper. See if you still shoot left. Its amazing how tight a group (left to right) you can get on blank paper.

[David Levene]

Have you tried using a Scatt (or other E.T.) to check that your trigger is in the right position?

[Gwhite]

Assuming you are right handed, all it takes is a tiny bit of aggression finishing up the trigger squeeze to do that.

Another possibility is finger tip pressure. Especially with air pistol, there is absolutely no need to apply any finger tip pressure on the grip. They should be completely relaxed. That would tend to pull the shots straight to the left.

The fact that the shots are going down & left makes me suspect the trigger squeeze.

The blank target is good, lots of dry firing would probably be even better.

[rmca]

It seams to me that the problem is in your trigger. I suspect it is a little forward than it should be and you are pushing the gun to the left when you squeeze the it.
Try dry fire at a blank wall and see if the front sight stays completely frozen when you squeeze the trigger. If you use a two stage trigger pay special attention to the step between the first and the second stage.
If it isn't, adjust the trigger so that it is a little bit back and dry fire again.

[Rover]

Put in 4 or 5 clicks R windage. Then stop throwing them to the right.

[Bob-Riegl]

Start working on the position of your trigger finger on the trigger itself. Try moving the finger until you have less and less finger on the trigger i.e.moving the fine point of contact more towards the tips of the finger and above all centre this point of contact below the middle of the trigger itself. That position of groups is always a problem of how match finger you have on the trigger. This is only a suggestion not a miracle cure. But that is IMHO the root cause of your problem, though there also may possibly be other contributing factors as well. Above all it is CONSISTENCY, in your procedures for each shot you take....."Doc"

[luftskytter]

Have you tried supporting your arm?
Much easier to do good smooth triggerwork with a really steady hold.

Also look closely to make sure your front sight is really well centered in the rear notch. Surprisingly easy to overlook a tendency to offset this a little bit.

[john bickar]

Put in 4 or 5 clicks R windage. Then stop throwing them to the right.

As much as it pains me to agree with Rover, he's half right.

Give it 3 clicks right, then keep shooting 10s.

I just bought a screwdriver today, so I know they are still only $4.99, even in California.

[Brian G]

Nobody has mentioned FOLLOW THROUGH where are your sights after the shot release?
With a recoilless pistol watching the follow through there should not be any movement.

Should this be FOLLOW THRO' as this is an USA based forum ;-)

[David M]

Moving the trigger shoe fore and aft will move your group left and right.
Try moving the shoe aft a little and readjust your sights.
Play click to centre "move your sights one click after each shot, left/right/up/down...as required. Remember one click will not move you out of the ten ring. Eventually you will centre the group.

[fichmant]

I had the same problem, my trigger finger was touching the grip of the pistol. i used a wood saw and took ~2mm of the wood. and the problem solved :)

[vHoff]

Thank you all. I am practicing later tonight and will definitely work with the sights as well as the trigger.

The trigger issue is a bit new to me. Just to make sure I have the issue correct, by having the trigger too far forward, when the shot breaks, my finger is exerting pressure to the left because the angle when the shot breaks is >90 degrees?

[rmca]

Yes. If it's too forward you will push the gun to the left because the force you are exerting isn't parallel to the barrel. Like wise if it's too far back, you will pull it to the right (assuming right handed).
The key in shooting is consistency. Make sure that you finger makes contact with your trigger blade in exactly the same way every time. You shouldn't "look" for the trigger with your finger once you raise the gun, it should find it's own way automatically.
Make sure that your grip is the same every time. Tiny variations in the way your hand grabs the grip will result in a different trigger contact.

When you're at the range pay attention to three things:
The consistency of your grip
The placement of your finger on the trigger
The front sight during the shot and the follow through

If noting of this helps and you are still consistently to the left, try rotating your feet a little to the right.

[jliston48]

From the look of your targets, you would benefit from the use of a SCATT system - and it would probably give you the answer fairly quickly - but they are very expensive. Some clubs or some pistol coaches may have a SCATT. It would be worth your while to ask around.

In the meantime, my suggestion is to engage in a rigorous dry-fire session and really watch the front sight during shot release and and try to call all your "shots". See if there are any clues there.

If that doesn't find the answer, it could be a "live fire" phenomenon. Try having a friend/coach prepare your pistol for shooting - ie load and cock it but not tell you whether they have loaded a pellet. As you execute the shot and follow through, pay particular attention to the front sight and again try to call all your shots - whether a pellet was used or not.

[luftskytter]

Looking at this again, I wonder what's the problem?
Maybe NPA does exist after all?
Are you pointing at the centre naturally or by twisting your hand?
The answer may be that the grip of your pistol needs modification.

And there's nothing wrong about adjusting you sights: which of your shots are the flyers? The ones to the right? If that's the case, adjust accordingly.
In my archery days, I broke most of the rules, but I adhered to this one:
Adjust the sights so that the good shots hit centre, don't try to adjust for short term maximum score.

And find your own way of doing things; trigger finger touching the grip or not being at 90 degrees is not a mortal sin. Many top shooters break these rules, and coaches won't be able to give you a credible explanation of why this is important.

[RobStubbs]

Whilst there's a lot of good ideas above, you need a coach to take a look at you shooting to work out the reasons behind the shot groupings. Scatt isn't really necessary to do that - it could tell you movement ocurred and when but not the reason for it.

I think the 90 degree angle is pretty obvious as is the trigger finger not touching the grip. You want all movements to be made in such a way that it doesn't disturb the sights or the shot movement. Pulling a trigger with the finger angled is more likely to induce lateral movement of the gun. Ditto if your trigger finger contacts the grip, the musce movement of the trigger finger will push on the grip again inducing a degree of lateral movement, which 10 metres away can move the shot away from where the gun was pointing.

Follow through should help you. Where is the gun pointing when the shots have been fired ? Can you call all the shots or are some surprises ? If so which ones ?

Rob.

[yana]

Check how yr grip is first:
Aim, close yr eyes, open them again. Fontsight still inline and in the middle of the rear sight? If not, adjust the way you grip it till it does.
Step 2, is indeed yr zero. Dont check it once, check it several times, and check it correctly.
After those 2 stes, check trigger control, and blade adjustment,as mentioned.

[luftskytter]

Rob took the bait:

Nothing is obvious; your trigger finger has 3 joints and they all move.
90 degrees would relate to the finger tip, but many of us probaly have most of the movement in the middle joint. So this is not as simple as it may appear.

And the "movement" should be a slow squeeze ending when the trigger breaks and you almost instantly hit the trigger stop. Unless you have an electronic trigger that hardly breaks at all ;-)

So don't get hung up in these details when looking for reasnons why you hit to the left. Most of this stuff is just traditional beliefs and a framework for teaching beginners in a structured manner. The final solution is yours, if you ever settle down...