Rimfire accuracy
My Target Talk friends:
This will be my only post on this fine forum.
Rimfire accuracy:
If I were a rimfire position shooter, I would want to incorporate every ounce of accuracy that I could, to my gun.
I have spent some time today reviewing this fine site.
My Target Talk friends, my life is dedicated to seeing just how accurate we can make the 22 long rifle cartridge.
I live in the world of big time rimfire benchrest shooting, where not only is the shooter responsible for his/her success, but the accuracy of the equipment is equally responsible.........
The World that I live in, Big Time rimfire benchrest, has produced the most remarkable, rimfire accuracy, on the face of the planet.
My Target Talk, Rimfire, Position shooting friends:
This same level of World Class, rimfire accuracy, that we enjoy in Big Time, Rimfire Benchrest shooting, here in America, is available to you too.
I love your wonderful forum, but, there is a World of wonderful rimfire accuracy, that you position shooters, world wide can benefit from....
All you have to do, is use it.
I will not post again on this fine web site.......
Your friend, Bill Calfee
Rimfire accuracy
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
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C. Perkins
- Posts: 480
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- Location: Was a Bullseye Master
Re: Rimfire accuracy
OK, I'll bite - Is Bill fishing for work?
He didn't say where to find this nervana of information.
Or is he just posting to throw a teaser out to the "unwashed".
While Bill is a very talented rimfire gunsmith, he is also very good at making these type of posts and leaving everyone dangling.
Bob
He didn't say where to find this nervana of information.
Or is he just posting to throw a teaser out to the "unwashed".
While Bill is a very talented rimfire gunsmith, he is also very good at making these type of posts and leaving everyone dangling.
Bob
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bpscCheney
- Posts: 187
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- Location: Wisconsin
Funnily enough, most of the benchrest 'innovations' HAVE been tried in position shooting. they have had little or no significant effect on account of the shooters just not being stable enough to actually produce the same groups as a rest. Tuners are used, some choose to use 6 o'clock firing pins, what other supposed innovations could there be?
Wow feel like we have been visited by the Oracle of Delphi.
I sort of assume he is trying to point us to his new website...
http://wwaccuracy.com/content.phps=e140 ... ae7f6d5e64
I sort of assume he is trying to point us to his new website...
http://wwaccuracy.com/content.phps=e140 ... ae7f6d5e64
I got my start in benchrest smallbore shooting. Got real crazy for a bit chasing accuracy. Listening to Bill C. and others. Found as one other here said that most of all these accuracy advancements have been tried before. There is a difference doing all a benchrest shooter does to improve accuracy vs what position shooters do. I've found several flaws in what "benchrest" shooters do that would increase their accuracy. Not going to get into that! The biggest single difference is having great ammo, knowing how to find it and getting as much of it as you can. Simple as that. I do believe in the tuners! Not that they make the gun more accurate, but that they allow you to shoot what ammo you have. The biggest thing that would benefit the position world is having an action like the Bleiker. Mainly just having the loading port closer to ease fatigue over a long match. Not a bid deal with someone that practices all the time or has long arms. All the other stuff is fluff and might have some significants but little. If there were an Anschutz action with the loading port right above the trigger for a reasonable price. They would be flying off the shelf!
Now......Bill is reading all this and he is one that could get it done and just might be what he is doing. Getting ideas from us! Guess we'll see now.
Tenring
Now......Bill is reading all this and he is one that could get it done and just might be what he is doing. Getting ideas from us! Guess we'll see now.
Tenring
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1813benny
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What many in the BR world do not understand, especially Calfee as his motives are ego and profit driven, is that in prone and position what makes a shooter successful is commitment before equipment.
A shooter with good equipment that has drive will succeed. A shooter with the so called BR world class accuracy that does not have the drive to train and refine technique to shoot from position will never succeed.
The two sports are entirely different. Yes, accuracy in our sport is important, but it is not the equipment race like BR.
Ken
A shooter with good equipment that has drive will succeed. A shooter with the so called BR world class accuracy that does not have the drive to train and refine technique to shoot from position will never succeed.
The two sports are entirely different. Yes, accuracy in our sport is important, but it is not the equipment race like BR.
Ken
These days,when decimal scoring counts,it's even more important than before to have an accurate rifle.In my opinion, Bill Calffe knows about accuracy in 0.22 more than everyone that shoots in our sport. I have learned a lot from him and still do. When your technic is in high level,a better rifle can make the difference between winning and loosing. I think we can learn a lot from the bench rest community.
Guy.
Guy.
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1813benny
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Bill Calfee is not the only one who knows how to build an accurate rifle and his contributions to international prone and 3-p amount to less than the period at the end of this sentence.
He is just trolling here for self adulation. Maybe he needs to sell some more of his $10k rifles....but I would take a stock Bleiker, Walther or Anschutz (in no specific order) before any of his rifles. Those are shot from the shoulder and designed for our sports - not for a rest on a bench.
There are rifle shooters and BR shooters - the sports do not cross over much.
Ken
He is just trolling here for self adulation. Maybe he needs to sell some more of his $10k rifles....but I would take a stock Bleiker, Walther or Anschutz (in no specific order) before any of his rifles. Those are shot from the shoulder and designed for our sports - not for a rest on a bench.
There are rifle shooters and BR shooters - the sports do not cross over much.
Ken
The point is already being misconstrued. There is definitely a lot to learn from the Benchrest community and Bill C! Having an accurate rifle of course could mean the difference between winning and losing. So could a lot of factors. So many hair to split....
Back to the point.... He is tapping on another communities door with an invitation. No harm there. "BC" is one of the best gunsmiths around. Pioneer of rimfire? Who knows? Chew the meat and spit out the bones! He does like to stir the pot just like he's doing now. Judging by the few responses already. People here might not understand. When I was in the BR forums there was a lot stirred up by "BC's" posts and from people that just could not stand "BC" and his dangles of information. It destroyed the enjoyment of the forums for me and others. Please everyone don't get wrapped around the axil of his personality. Learn everything you can from who you can wherever you can and have fun doing it!
tenring
Back to the point.... He is tapping on another communities door with an invitation. No harm there. "BC" is one of the best gunsmiths around. Pioneer of rimfire? Who knows? Chew the meat and spit out the bones! He does like to stir the pot just like he's doing now. Judging by the few responses already. People here might not understand. When I was in the BR forums there was a lot stirred up by "BC's" posts and from people that just could not stand "BC" and his dangles of information. It destroyed the enjoyment of the forums for me and others. Please everyone don't get wrapped around the axil of his personality. Learn everything you can from who you can wherever you can and have fun doing it!
tenring
I've followed the writings of Mr Calfee for a couple of years now and I am struggling to think of anything he has posted that has actually improved my scores...
The single thing that has improved my shooting more that anything else in the last ten years was posted by - Guy Starik. (thanks Guy).
Regards,
Ken (a different one.)
The single thing that has improved my shooting more that anything else in the last ten years was posted by - Guy Starik. (thanks Guy).
Regards,
Ken (a different one.)
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1813benny
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:03 pm
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BINGO!tenring wrote: When I was in the BR forums there was a lot stirred up by "BC's" posts and from people that just could not stand "BC" and his dangles of information. It destroyed the enjoyment of the forums for me and others.
tenring
His approach and "input" is not worth ruining TT or the harmony of the prone and 3-p shooters that it serves. BC can post on the other 3 or 4 BR sites...oh yeah...he was run off all of those and now only resides on the one closed site created for his own gratification by his cult.
Prosecution rests.
Ken (the other other one!)
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C. Perkins
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:31 pm
- Location: Was a Bullseye Master
I am currently half way through Mr. Calfee's book "The Art of Rimfire Accuracy"
It is a very good read, IMHO.
His writing style is unique and I believe it comes from deep down as it is the way he expresses himself even on the "private forum" as I am a member of.
Hands down he has extensive knowledge of that damn little lead .22 cartridge and making it shoot into a very small hole.
What benchrest and using a sling in prone have in common...
I cannot answer that as yet cause I am just getting into rimfire prone as I speak.
One thing that does stand out, is the accuracy of your rifle, everything else is up to you.
Clarence
It is a very good read, IMHO.
His writing style is unique and I believe it comes from deep down as it is the way he expresses himself even on the "private forum" as I am a member of.
Hands down he has extensive knowledge of that damn little lead .22 cartridge and making it shoot into a very small hole.
What benchrest and using a sling in prone have in common...
I cannot answer that as yet cause I am just getting into rimfire prone as I speak.
One thing that does stand out, is the accuracy of your rifle, everything else is up to you.
Clarence
Ken,(the other one),
If you take one of these stock rifles,there is a very little chance you would be competitive in the highest level of prone shooters. The best rifles from these companies goes to the best shooters in the world,the rest you can buy,but than you are not competitive if you don't change your barrel.
Even so,a lot of the best prone shooters change their barrel to an after market barrel (including all American top level prone shooters)! I'm not saying Bill is the only one who knows about rimfire accuracy,but he is willing to share his knowledge,and I like to learn...
Sometimes you can get lucky,and have a stock rifle shoot incredibly good,but it's rare. Sergey Martinov is shooting with the best barrel Anschutz can provide him,and shooting old Olymp ammo from 1988.
I think he would still be the best shooter ever,if he will shoot one of the other manefactures rifle,but it needs to have a very accurate system.
In our sport the shooter ability to shoot is much more important than the quality of the gun compared to benchrest. But,you have no chance to make a final if your rifle is not good enough!
If your rifle can produce 11-14mm groups constantly,you are competitive,if not you will never get there!
Guy.
If you take one of these stock rifles,there is a very little chance you would be competitive in the highest level of prone shooters. The best rifles from these companies goes to the best shooters in the world,the rest you can buy,but than you are not competitive if you don't change your barrel.
Even so,a lot of the best prone shooters change their barrel to an after market barrel (including all American top level prone shooters)! I'm not saying Bill is the only one who knows about rimfire accuracy,but he is willing to share his knowledge,and I like to learn...
Sometimes you can get lucky,and have a stock rifle shoot incredibly good,but it's rare. Sergey Martinov is shooting with the best barrel Anschutz can provide him,and shooting old Olymp ammo from 1988.
I think he would still be the best shooter ever,if he will shoot one of the other manefactures rifle,but it needs to have a very accurate system.
In our sport the shooter ability to shoot is much more important than the quality of the gun compared to benchrest. But,you have no chance to make a final if your rifle is not good enough!
If your rifle can produce 11-14mm groups constantly,you are competitive,if not you will never get there!
Guy.
The best thing about BC is he is willing to share the info he has learn over the years of building RF rifles. You may not always agree with his "Science" but you cannot argue over his results.
While BR shooting and Prone shooting have their differences the one thing in common is an accurate rifle. Barrels and bullets are at the top of the heap as far as a competitor is concerned.
RF Prone shooting is a very competitive sport and if you have the equipment that performs a bit better than your competitor you now have the ability to capitalize on that advantage.
BC is focused on creating the most accurate rifle you can get. So bbl selection, correct chambering, bbl slugging are all important to the search for the most accurate combination.
You can go to the Lapua and Ely testing centers to obtain the most accurate ammo your rifle likes. What if you could knock 20-30 percent off the group size with a better bbl. That is where I believe BC is coming from, starting at the beginning with the most accurate bbl so that when you find the best ammo, the potential is greater for a higher score?
Why do you think that Anschutz created the 2007/2013 line of receivers. You can quickly change bbls and find the one that shoots best. BC will tell you that if you did a quality inspection on the RF blank before you turned your machines on, it would save you a lot of wasted time and money.
Realize that all of that is focused on the machinery. It is up to the shooter to have his/her skills up to the capability of the machinery. That said, starting out with a rifle that is a "Hammer" will help you realize that when shots go astray, it was not the rifle!
Bob
While BR shooting and Prone shooting have their differences the one thing in common is an accurate rifle. Barrels and bullets are at the top of the heap as far as a competitor is concerned.
RF Prone shooting is a very competitive sport and if you have the equipment that performs a bit better than your competitor you now have the ability to capitalize on that advantage.
BC is focused on creating the most accurate rifle you can get. So bbl selection, correct chambering, bbl slugging are all important to the search for the most accurate combination.
You can go to the Lapua and Ely testing centers to obtain the most accurate ammo your rifle likes. What if you could knock 20-30 percent off the group size with a better bbl. That is where I believe BC is coming from, starting at the beginning with the most accurate bbl so that when you find the best ammo, the potential is greater for a higher score?
Why do you think that Anschutz created the 2007/2013 line of receivers. You can quickly change bbls and find the one that shoots best. BC will tell you that if you did a quality inspection on the RF blank before you turned your machines on, it would save you a lot of wasted time and money.
Realize that all of that is focused on the machinery. It is up to the shooter to have his/her skills up to the capability of the machinery. That said, starting out with a rifle that is a "Hammer" will help you realize that when shots go astray, it was not the rifle!
Bob