What are your 32 S&W HBWC loads for Int'l CF and 50 yard

Bruce Martindale · Post by **Bruce Martindale** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:00 pm

...conventional shooting.

The standard 1.4 BE / 1.9 231 are pretty anemic

What else are people loading that gets over 700 FPS?

I have some of Doc Youngs reloads but I cant get those components.

Would slower powders be better? Big flake types wont meter well in small charges

thanks

fc60 · Post by **fc60** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:47 pm

Greetings,

With the European slow twist barrels, an H&N 100 grain HBWC, available from Cibles Canada, matched to the groove diameter or 0.001" larger will generally get ten ring accuracy at 50 yards. I suggest using Lapua brass, an expander equal to or 0.001" larger than the bullet you select, and 1.70 grains of Alliant Bullseye. Taper crimp as needed to ensure positive functioning.

With a custom fast twist barrel, the Speer bullets have offered excellent results when hand selected. (Looking for obvious nicks and dings).

Careful reloading technique is key. Your powder delivery system needs to dispense a powder charge accurately. i.e. ten carefully thrown charges must weigh +/- 0.1 grains cumulatively. In other words, if you desire 1.70 grains, the total of ten charges must tally 16.9-17.1 grains. 0.03 grains will increase/decrease the velocity about 25 FPS.

I use a Star loader with the 1/4" thick powder bar and interchangeable bushings. All my test ammo is loaded on this machine.

Cheers,

Dave

Greg Derr · Post by **Greg Derr** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:04 pm

Bruce, the H&N bullets are available from RoCo in Texas.

I like the Lapua 83gr. bullet at 25 meters with Bullseye powder myself.

David M · Post by **David M** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:26 pm

Here are some of the hotter loads....use with caution !
Bullseye 1.8g 760fps
Bullseye 2.0g 825 fps
VV n310 1.5g 735 fps
Trailboss 2.2g 760 fps

All .314 HBWC using .003" oversize dies, modified crimp.

mld · Post by **mld** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:55 pm

I like 1.5 gr VV N310 with Lapua brass and the Berry's plated 83 gr HBWC.

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:40 pm

I get the best results if I don't go so fast. If I had to guess the ultimate velocity in my experience, I would say 690 to 720 for the long line. Depending on which gun you are using you can get away with a lot slower at the 25 yard line even getting so slow that dirty powder burn gets to be a problem, making the gun get dirty where it might alibi in 3 or 400 rounds. In my Benelli it is real important to watch the groove that the extractor goes into when it closes on the barrel. If junk gets in there the extractor gets knocked out. I agree with FC60 and would add that I think RP brass and Magtech CBC are also good if you are shooting a standard barrel because the bullet needs to be so big. If you are shooting a smaller caliber barrel like .312 or smaller, some of the other brass is OK then too as they have a smaller internal diameter and a smaller bullet may well work. Accurate #2 is the right speed as is Win 231 and Power Pistol. The 231 doesn't throw as accurately though. I don't think any of these powders would work on a Dillon unless you modify the powder bar or use a different measure. My load with a stock short barrel is .2 of a grain different than a 2 inch longer barrel in order to keep the velocity the same. Dave, you must be a masochist using a star with removable press in bushings although it is probably very accurate. I am tired of making them and hardly ever use the Star and defer to the Dillon. -- Bill --

Bruce Martindale · Post by **Bruce Martindale** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:22 pm

Big secret seems to be the expander plug; big enough (0.315) and deep enough. I found one under my lathe too !

David Ms BE load velocities are correct.

I am using RP brass and a Dillon 550. You have to watch for taped wall brass like starline as they will crush the wadcutter base. If the expander plug is set deep enough, it will bulge the case at the junction of the taper.

I used a RCBS pistol micrometer measure stuffed into a Lee expander die.

SWC heads seem to shoot well at 50 yards in deference to HBWC

I did find an extended HBWC and more poder to shoot a 2 inch group at 50 yards in a K32; havent RR tested it in the Walther for lack of an insert.

Hotter loads on the HBWC are fliers.

more later...

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:14 pm

The expander on a Star is a real big advantage because it is easy to make since the powder doesn't go through it like it does on a Dillon. Bruce, I have had just as good results with a Saeco wadcutter mold as I have had with H&N. I think it is a #323 98 grain. The mold does require a rich tin mixture to get good fill out and so far it is better than my Mihec HBWC 100 grain bullet. Once when I was testing loads, I thought I had 20 H&N to test and in reality had 10 H&N and 10 Saeco. They shot to the same place because all 20 were in 2 inches.

jbshooter · Post by **jbshooter** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:27 am

is the expander meant to go deep enough to accomodate the projectile? I have had cases bulge in a ring about where the end of where the projectile would seat to. Is this because of case taper, do all cases have it?

David M · Post by **David M** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:38 am

The bulge is a combination of two things, re-sizer diameter and neck expander.
It is caused by too small a re-sizer with a large neck expander.
The .32 SW Long has the worst SAMI spec of any round. Bullet diameter of 0.314" +0.000" / -0.006".
In other words anything from 0.308" up to 0.314".
Most factory dies are set up for 0.311 (hence crush 0.314").

I use Starline brass (I know, thick walled and tapered guts), but my re-sizer die has been diamond lapped out 0.003", so that it just touches the case wall of a fired case (about 0.312" ID).
My neck expander is 0.314 and the length of my HBWC.
After expanding the brass spring back allows me to push a 0.314" projectile into the case with firm hand pressure, and I then crimp to reduce the neck diameter by 0.005" with a modified crimp (part roll/part taper)

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:36 am

You can get a .002 larger sizer from Lee for a decent price but if you go bigger, it is I think $100. When loading a lot of brass that is out there the first few times, it is hard to pull the expander back out of the case because it is too tight so if a person has a problem doing this, fire form them first. I have never tried Starline but Hirtenberger, Federal, Speer, and Winchester are tight. GFL is a little looser, and then Lapua, Magtech, and Remington in that order are the loosest and easiest to manipulate.

fc60 · Post by **fc60** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:20 am

Greetings,

I purchased several Lee Carbide sizing dies that were "oversize"

Yes we have the over sized die. Cost is $27.98 + $5.25 S&H.
Thanks,

Dave
Tech Service
Lee Precision
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027
phone: (262)673-3075

Specify what diameter the sized case will finish at. I received the dies exactly as I requested.

Cheers,

Dave

bruceASGUEST · Post by **bruceASGUEST** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:15 pm

I have the DFillon press but RCBS dies; custom solid plug expander

True small sizing dies can crush the bullet if soft or get the dillon wasp waist if hard but expanding the tapered part of the case is always an unchamberable bulge. You can feel when you get a non straightwall case.

I use a Lee powder through die with the alum powder funnel "cap" on it instead of their powder measure and I stuff the green nozzle of the RCBS powder measure into the cap.

I also have RCBS WC and RN moulds and have good results there. Wanted a Star luber die but settled for Lyman and LEE push thru.

Actually have 2 of the LEE; forgot I had one and ordered another

They work well, just slow

Anyone need one?

JohnLK · Post by **JohnLK** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:51 am

I've owned a Unique 32U since the late 1990's but shot it very little until
recently. Since the company is now gone and parts could be a problem I am reluctant to experiment with hotter loads for 50 yards. Where this gun really shines for me is the indoor 50ft leagues and matches over the Winter months. It's really a lot of fun to shoot for center fire.
Old Caster has given me a lot of great advice in the PM's we've exchanged.
This summer I sold my 550B and bought a Hornady Lock n Load progressive so that I could have 5 die stations with Hornady's powder measure. Now I'm able to expand the case mouth and crimp the loaded round in separate stations. It's worked out great for me!
I had RCBS custom make an expander plug. It was made exactly to my drawing...full bullet length and .3145 diameter.
I too prefer the Saeco 323 to the MiHec hollow base. I've loaded some Hornady HBWC's but haven't shot them enough to have an opinion.
I recently bought 500 Star Line cases. They are pretty tough to run the expander thru the first loading. I had to use spray on case lube to run them thru. After having fired them once it's no longer a problem. I do get a bulge in the case where the expander ends. I may need to look in to an oversize sizing die. R-P and WW is not a problem.
I'm really enjoying this thread!
Thanks!
JLK

Bruce Martindale · Post by **Bruce Martindale** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:36 pm

John,

You can back out the expander plug so it doesnt hit the taper part of the case but the bullet may be too long and have its base crushed by the taper.

I use star lines for round nose and SWC bullets but found the HBWC too long for my auto, it ok in the revolver.

A cast may be shorter but you have to try it

I am back to 1.9 of 231 or whatever BE falls from the same cavity (1.7 I think) for 25 yard shooting

regards

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