What do you think about this

manurodriguez · Post by **manurodriguez** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:37 am

http://www.visier.de/bilder/excel/lp_match.htm

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:53 am

It's crap, because they will deduct points for chickenshit stuff, like when they think that you need too much force to open the breech etc. Besides, german pistols always get better reviews than foreign ones.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:08 am

Wow what a heap of crock. I wonder what the percentage of tesros compared to morinis were at the Olympics seen as the tesro is ment to be better. For that matter. How how many morinis made the final compared to p44s

Ricardo · Post by **Ricardo** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:45 pm

Gee, thanks for sharing! We all understand German on this forum.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:53 pm

I wonder what the percentage of tesros ... be better

Well, that argument doesn't count, either. Objectively, the Tesro "can do" a lot of things the Morini can't, which is of course nice to know before you buy something. Otherwise you get stuck with an antique piece of kit where you can't adjust anything because Francesco doesn't believe you should, unless you shoot 590. The problem with the VISIER tests is the scale, for what they give or deduct points, and there some really useless stuff in there. And a ranking where (can't see it here, it's sport pistols) the GSP comes out almost at the top has to be a joke. VISIER used to be pretty good back in the old times when Uli Eichstädt wrote a lot of stuff himself, he really knows half of the planet, and his stuff too, but the newer generation just makes pretty pics and doesn't understand a thing. And they can't shoot, either. You want useful reviews with adequate technical description (in German), read DWJ.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:12 am

Tycho wrote:I wonder what the percentage of tesros ... be better

Well, that argument doesn't count, either. Objectively, the Tesro "can do" a lot of things the Morini can't, which is of course nice to know before you buy something. Otherwise you get stuck with an antique piece of kit where you can't adjust anything because Francesco doesn't believe you should, unless you shoot 590. The problem with the VISIER tests is the scale, for what they give or deduct points, and there some really useless stuff in there. And a ranking where (can't see it here, it's sport pistols) the GSP comes out almost at the top has to be a joke. VISIER used to be pretty good back in the old times when Uli Eichstädt wrote a lot of stuff himself, he really knows half of the planet, and his stuff too, but the newer generation just makes pretty pics and doesn't understand a thing. And they can't shoot, either. You want useful reviews with adequate technical description (in German), read DWJ.

F
At the end of the day what is an air pistol designed to do. I would say to allow a shooter to shoot the highest score he possibly can. There for I wouldn't consider the lower end pistols with more adjustability to be bake to be ranked as a better pistol so I still think what I said is valid. Get a custom grip and you don't need adaptability

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:28 am

More options is a definite bigger inherent value. Your custom grip theory is great (are you related to Francesco?) but for somebody starting it out, it's worthless, because they might change their stance several times in the first few years. A Steyr or Walther is adjustable for that, with the Morini you've lost.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:51 am

Tycho wrote:More options is a definite bigger inherent value. Your custom grip theory is great (are you related to Francesco?) but for somebody starting it out, it's worthless, because they might change their stance several times in the first few years. A Steyr or Walther is adjustable for that, with the Morini you've lost.

I wish I was so I could get cheap parts. I do agree with you that they should mak it adjustable but I don't think it's worth buying a lower grade pistol to have the adjustments. If it's so important to the point where you have lost if you don't have it then how did every1 heat so good before all of the adjustable grips

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:15 am

You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make. Top shooters were shooting 580 30 years ago with the FWB 65, but the gap to the middle class and the beginners was huge. The new pistols don't make you shoot better, but make it easier to shoot well. And the adjustable grip etc. make it easier to match a pistol to somebody's style, and to adjust it for new developments. Just because you like your antiquity doesn't make it the best value AP today.

The complete reverse happened in RF - it was a lot easier to shoot 570 with the old .22 short, but took the same amount of time as today to shoot 590. World class shooters do 590 with the long rifle, but your average user can't even see that on the horizon.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:19 am

Another point about the customizing of grips, unfortunately with the electronics inside the grip the actual amount of material to work with in some areas is very little. Morini's lack of adjustment is based solely on an antiquated method of attachment, the method of attachment adds nothing but does limit. There are better attachment methods, so there is no good reason not to have the ability to both customize the grip and adjust the grip.

Having shot most of the modern crop of air pistol I don't think your settling for something lower by not choosing a Morini or Steyr. The th Tesro, p44 and the LP400 are all world class pistols.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:55 am

Richard H wrote:Another point about the customizing of grips, unfortunately with the electronics inside the grip the actual amount of material to work with in some areas is very little. Morini's lack of adjustment is based solely on an antiquated method of attachment, the method of attachment adds nothing but does limit. There are better attachment methods, so there is no good reason not to have the ability to both customize the grip and adjust the grip.

Having shot most of the modern crop of air pistol I don't think your settling for something lower by not choosing a Morini or Steyr. The th Tesro, p44 and the LP400 are all world class pistols.

Well I would defiantly agree how they mount the circuit board and his big it is is stupid it does make it harder to make a grip. If the p44 had an electronic trigger I'd think about changing over to it

Funny Farmer · Post by **Funny Farmer** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:22 pm

I never liked the point system of Visier but the articles are OK. Not biased at all in my opinion, e.g. the article about the Walther 400 was more critical despite good results.

Volker · Post by **Volker** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:25 pm

Funny Farmer wrote:I never liked the point system of Visier but the articles are OK. Not biased at all in my opinion, e.g. the article about the Walther 400 was more critical despite good results.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to this article ?!

Funny Farmer · Post by **Funny Farmer** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:55 pm

>You wouldn't happen to have a link to this article ?!

Not online it seems, at least not for free..

TB · Post by TB » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:32 am

http://www.feinwerkbau.de/ceasy/modules ... download=1

Volker · Post by **Volker** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:44 pm

TB wrote:http://www.feinwerkbau.de/ceasy/modules ... download=1

Thanks !