Hi all... been lurking for about 2 weeks now, finally got a question to post.
So, I searched and it came up with over 141 pages of replies... that's a lot... and none of the topics on the first 10 or so pages looked to answer my question, so here it goes.
I am about to plunk down the cash to buy a pistol for 10 Meter AP. So, being as I have never shot this before, should I buy something that I can grow into, such as the Styer LP-10 or the Walther LP400 (these and the FWB are the most popular ones here where I am in Germany), or is there something else I should go for? The money is not the hold up here as it is my spare change that I have been saving for a hobby I never had! LOL!
I am going to be getting basic shooting instruction (besides that that I have gotten through my 16 years in the military) from the base Rod & Gun Club, but being as I am stuck in Germany for a little while longer, I doubt that they are going to be able to help a tremendous amount except on breath control and such. When I get back to the US, I'll be able to hopefully get some good coaching in 10 Meter AP.
So, have at it... what route should I go? If you do post a specific model, please explain why if you don't mind.
Thanks in advance... can't wait to squash some pellets!
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Find a German shooting club close to you, and find a time when the AP pistol people practice. Look at their guns and try as many as possible. All of the high quality pistols such as Steyr will take you as far as you want to go. Chosing between them is a matter of individual preference. If you have an extensive background in pistol you will have a good idea what works for you already. If you don't, and you are still active duty, I recommend contacting the AMU at Ft Benning, and following their advice.
Wait, you're in Germany... home to Thousands of shooting clubs and private ranges where AP is well respected, and you're going to wait till you get back to the US (where there are precious few places with more than 1 AP shooter in a several hundred mile radius)?
That's backwards. Find a club OFF-BASE and get your butt in there. Try out the pistols they have, find the one you like the most and buy it (since money isn't an issue). Lots of options (and more opinions), but really all tht matters is your confidence with the pistol. If you're more confident with a FWB 65 (old pistol) than a brand new LP10E, then you'll be better of with the FWB.
Near as I can tell the 3 major "rifts" within the AP realm are having a fully adjustable grip, an electronic trigger, or neither. I moved from a gun that had neither to one with a fully adjustable grip because that was the one thing I constantly wished for (I HATED having to change the grip to change the sight alignment).
My wife tried for a position in Spangdahlem and I was drooling over all the shooting options (and enthusiasm) in Germany. Don't let it pass you by.
That's backwards. Find a club OFF-BASE and get your butt in there. Try out the pistols they have, find the one you like the most and buy it (since money isn't an issue). Lots of options (and more opinions), but really all tht matters is your confidence with the pistol. If you're more confident with a FWB 65 (old pistol) than a brand new LP10E, then you'll be better of with the FWB.
Near as I can tell the 3 major "rifts" within the AP realm are having a fully adjustable grip, an electronic trigger, or neither. I moved from a gun that had neither to one with a fully adjustable grip because that was the one thing I constantly wished for (I HATED having to change the grip to change the sight alignment).
My wife tried for a position in Spangdahlem and I was drooling over all the shooting options (and enthusiasm) in Germany. Don't let it pass you by.
Where in Germany are you? Every little town has at least one ranges, there are way more coaches there too. If you can, start shooting in Germany.
Last edited by Richard H on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brian M nailed it exactly. A lot of the clubs have their own private bars as well. You can sit there and chat with the shooters about their choices.
Absolutely do not overlook the opportunity to buy a few different used APs to bring back with you. You can get the older guns very cheaply there.
I would suggest a FWB65 or 80, FWB 100, 102, or 103 and a PCP of your choice.
Absolutely do not overlook the opportunity to buy a few different used APs to bring back with you. You can get the older guns very cheaply there.
I would suggest a FWB65 or 80, FWB 100, 102, or 103 and a PCP of your choice.
ISSF shooting is *BIG* in Germany. There are lots of nice ranges there for ISSF disciplines including 10m AP. Google "schuetzenverein" and your nearest town.
Here are a few examples in the Stuttgart area:
http://www.stuttgarter-schuetzengilde.de/index.html
http://www.schuetzenkreis-stuttgart.de/index.html
http://www.nsg-stuttgart.de
http://www.sgstuttgart-ost.de
You might have to learn a little German. Where in Germany are you at? In the 1990s, Heidelberg used to have an awesome Rod and Gun club with probably the best ranges of any of the bases (although not much ISSF shooting there).
Here are a few examples in the Stuttgart area:
http://www.stuttgarter-schuetzengilde.de/index.html
http://www.schuetzenkreis-stuttgart.de/index.html
http://www.nsg-stuttgart.de
http://www.sgstuttgart-ost.de
You might have to learn a little German. Where in Germany are you at? In the 1990s, Heidelberg used to have an awesome Rod and Gun club with probably the best ranges of any of the bases (although not much ISSF shooting there).
Thanks ya'll... it's pretty rough interacting with the local population. We live out away from the base a good way and it's usually only the young (teenage) population that speaks English to any degree around our parts. I know my village has a shooting club, but from the looks of it, it's pretty much mostly archery. I will check in to it though. Thanks for the advice!
Go for the best of the line, whether it is the Steyr, the Pardini, the Morini or the Walther...since you have the money. The FWB is no longer ranked as the top...but then of course the pistol is always more accurate than the shooter.
Try to find a club that allows you to try out all these brands first before you make a decision. My first AP is totally not suitable for my physique that within a month I was looking for a change. If I were able to test all the other models and brands it would have been a very different story. They all have different characteristics. Unlike FP, in the AP field many brands and models are all very competitive. Plus there are so many adjustment you really need to try them all out before you make a decision. Once you make your decision, stick with it, add the bells and whistles if you need it, and it will be a competitive AP for you for many years to come.
This year's Olympic the AP60 we have a Steyr, Pardini, and then Walther on the podium. AP40 we have a Steyr, and two Morinis. We also know there are competitors using Benelli and FWB, though not as successful.
Try to find a club that allows you to try out all these brands first before you make a decision. My first AP is totally not suitable for my physique that within a month I was looking for a change. If I were able to test all the other models and brands it would have been a very different story. They all have different characteristics. Unlike FP, in the AP field many brands and models are all very competitive. Plus there are so many adjustment you really need to try them all out before you make a decision. Once you make your decision, stick with it, add the bells and whistles if you need it, and it will be a competitive AP for you for many years to come.
This year's Olympic the AP60 we have a Steyr, Pardini, and then Walther on the podium. AP40 we have a Steyr, and two Morinis. We also know there are competitors using Benelli and FWB, though not as successful.
Don't wanna kick you in the balls, but if I walked into a US shooting range and start talking to them in Swiss German, how far would I get? 50 words and a friendly attitude will get you a long way, even in Europe......it's pretty rough interacting with the local population. We live out away from the base a good way and it's usually only the young (teenage) population that speaks English to any degree around our parts
In most clubs that have an AP range, you'll find a bunch of different brands in use. If you ask, almost everybody will let you try his pistol. You don't have to plunk down a ton for a brand new AP, you can get almost everything on egun for half the price, a year old. Try to find something you like and that feels good in your hand, then forget about the hardware and start reading everything else here on TT about training and the mental aspects.
Thanks again for all the input. Next question, should I go ahead & join the ISSF? I definately want to get to the competition level. With an ISSF card does that allow you to compete in the states, or will I have to get an NRA card or USA Shooting or whatever? Not that I am opposed, I just don't see myself competing at other than the club level for at least a little bit.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
How long have you been in Germany? I've found just the opposite almost everyone can speak some English. Some are afraid to use it, just like I'm afraid to use my little German. I usually found if I at least made the attempt in German, most would switch to English, I assume my German was just too painful. I hazard to guess there are probably a dozen or more clubs within 20km, I did be very surprised if that wasn't the case.
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Bingo. attempt to speak German and they will sigh with relief and try out their English. You also should be able to find a neighbor or someone at the Rod and Gun club who speaks both German and English to go with you.Richard H wrote:How long have you been in Germany? I've found just the opposite almost everyone can speak some English. Some are afraid to use it, just like I'm afraid to use my little German. I usually found if I at least made the attempt in German, most would switch to English, I assume my German was just too painful. I hazard to guess there are probably a dozen or more clubs within 20km, I did be very surprised if that wasn't the case.
I know when I lived there, there were at least four ranges within 20 minutes of my house. I lived close to Hanau.
Richard H is correct; at least that has been my experience in Europe. I can't believe you're in their country and are not getting SOME handle on the language. Get off your ass.
Hanging around some different clubs would also give you opportunities to buy a few APs. As I said, you can get the older ones really cheaply.
Hanging around some different clubs would also give you opportunities to buy a few APs. As I said, you can get the older ones really cheaply.
There is a lot of good advice in English on the internet - google pistol coaching, etc.
Also, Thomas Rink (Rink pistol grips) is in Asslar, Germany (between Koln & Frankfurt. Google him too for advice and he makes world class grips for most competitive pistols. He spent years in the German military.
Also, what the others said is true - you're in the world's shooting heartland. Make the most of it while you're there. You might even get the chance to go to a World Cup (or similar) match and see how it's done.
My experience in Germany and everywhere is that if you show genuine passion and enthusiasm, you will find what and who you need.
Good luck - wish I was there!
Also, Thomas Rink (Rink pistol grips) is in Asslar, Germany (between Koln & Frankfurt. Google him too for advice and he makes world class grips for most competitive pistols. He spent years in the German military.
Also, what the others said is true - you're in the world's shooting heartland. Make the most of it while you're there. You might even get the chance to go to a World Cup (or similar) match and see how it's done.
My experience in Germany and everywhere is that if you show genuine passion and enthusiasm, you will find what and who you need.
Good luck - wish I was there!
Hi new shooter,
I am also new, been shooting AP for a few months now. My experience is that it was easier to start with a basic AP, that has a short line of sights. I started with a Röhm twinmaster trainer. I found that with this pistol I had more confidence in the beginning. It is easier to maintain the aim. After a couple og months I bought the FWB P44 short, and now I am only using this one. It is on a different league then the Röhm, but it also requires a base of technique already established. I think that if I started with the FWB from the beginning, it might have been very frustrating as it is less forgiving.
I am also new, been shooting AP for a few months now. My experience is that it was easier to start with a basic AP, that has a short line of sights. I started with a Röhm twinmaster trainer. I found that with this pistol I had more confidence in the beginning. It is easier to maintain the aim. After a couple og months I bought the FWB P44 short, and now I am only using this one. It is on a different league then the Röhm, but it also requires a base of technique already established. I think that if I started with the FWB from the beginning, it might have been very frustrating as it is less forgiving.
Again, thanks for all the input. I should clarify, I do know some functional German, but looking at learning the totally new terms needed for the sort, and me with probably less than a year left here, it's a daunting undertaking. I talked with my landlord and he's contacting the shooting clubs near my village to see if they have a coach that knows some English. Some English & my some German may be dangerous enough to work! LOL! I may not know how to say I need to adjust my sights, but if you need to order dinner & drinks, I'm your guy! Haha!
So, back on topic, is what evolution said a consensus? The more "elite" (LP-10, LP400, P44, etc) might less forgiving for a newbie, thus creating more frustration for a beginning shooter? I mean, I know how to shoot for the military, but to be honest, the majority of what they Air Force teaches us is probably not going to be of a ton of use in this discipline. The Air Force doesn't train us for perfect kills, they want us to put multiple bullets in a target... never understood that part.
Thanks, and I appreciate the inputs!
So, back on topic, is what evolution said a consensus? The more "elite" (LP-10, LP400, P44, etc) might less forgiving for a newbie, thus creating more frustration for a beginning shooter? I mean, I know how to shoot for the military, but to be honest, the majority of what they Air Force teaches us is probably not going to be of a ton of use in this discipline. The Air Force doesn't train us for perfect kills, they want us to put multiple bullets in a target... never understood that part.
Thanks, and I appreciate the inputs!
I dont think it will be a consensus. But if money is on no issue, do like I did and buy both. Feel which one is easier to start with and learn the basics. After you have the basis, sell the basic pistol.
What I meant with the original reply, is that it is easier to learn the basics and establish a shot process with a more forgiving pistol. You dont get the feeling you are doing bad all the time, as your mistakes are more tolerated by the pistol.
What I meant with the original reply, is that it is easier to learn the basics and establish a shot process with a more forgiving pistol. You dont get the feeling you are doing bad all the time, as your mistakes are more tolerated by the pistol.