US-made free pistols

BenEnglishTX · Post by **BenEnglishTX** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:59 pm

I couldn't find anything via the search function so I'll ask in a new thread. If I missed something, I apologize.

Since WWII, what free pistols have been made in the United States?

I ask this question mainly out of curiosity. I'm familiar with a large number of single-shot .22s that are legal under the rules to use for the 50M event but that certainly weren't designed for that purpose, such at the T/C, MOA, and Merrill/RPM. They don't count.

The only purpose-built free pistols from the U.S. that I can think of are the Tompkins and the Green. Have there been any others?

TIA for any help.

fc60 · Post by **fc60** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:28 pm

Greetings,

High Standard made one. Very expensive and few made.

Cheers,

Dave

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:19 pm

I've been a long time fan of High Standard's, and this is the first I've heard of them ever making a free pistol. Some digging seems to verify this, but there is amazingly little info on them. A few items mentioned an electric trigger, so I wonder if they were working with Green at some point.

Coastwatcher · Post by **Coastwatcher** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:39 pm

http://www.histandard.info/EFP/ST1960Y04-5M200R.pdf

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:19 pm

Thank you! VERY interesting article.

Brian G · Post by **Brian G** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:09 am

I seem to recall that the Americans wanted to use an electrical trigger release held in the non-shooting hand,and around the same time the USSR developed an up-side-down Olympic Rapid fire pistol, both were banned.
This would be in the late 50s early 60s.

Edit
http://www.geocities.ws/pistoleer2001/Evolution2.html
"This is the pistol that caused a furore at the 1956 Olympics and led to a change in the rules for the Rapid Fire Match. There is actually very little about it that is revolutionary. It is simply a Margolin pistol which has been turned upside down, a longer barrel fitted, the trigger relocated and the grip so arranged that the barrel position is very low in relation to the hand. The barrel is on the bottom in the picture above and the sights are set on a ramp on the top. The pistol was nicknamed the "Hacksaw" pistol for obvious reasons. The rule changes made after these games limited pistols to a size which would fit into a box
30cm x 15 cm x 5 cm, and the centre line of the barrel bore had to pass above the hand, in the firing position. Ironically, these changes ultimately led to the development of a pistol which was truly revolutionary and which eventually led to the elimination of all muzzle lift in Rapid Fire pistols."

BenEnglishTX · Post by **BenEnglishTX** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:11 am

Coastwatcher wrote:http://www.histandard.info/EFP/ST1960Y04-5M200R.pdf

Thanks for the very interesting article. I got a laugh out of the obviously incorrect title. The pistol certainly wasn't first; the Tompkins preceded it. Still, I had never before known about this one.

So, we've got Tompkins, High Standard, and Green. Any others?

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:58 am

It is too bad Hi Standard can't come out with this pistol today. If they would keep the price reasonable perhaps more people would be attracted to this kind of shooting.Cheers

Misny · Post by **Misny** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:22 am

Ernie Rodriguez wrote:It is too bad Hi Standard can't come out with this pistol today. If they would keep the price reasonable perhaps more people would be attracted to this kind of shooting.Cheers

It's too bad that that Hi Standard can't produce anything of value these days.

Karas · Post by **Karas** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:18 pm

There are few countries with a gun culture so imbedded into it's national fabric that the USA. I find it exceptionally amazing that Olympic shooting events are not as popular as they should be IMO. In theory it's not a big stretch from NRA bullseye shooting sports. And why should all the superior rimfire match ammunition be made exclusively in Europe??
Really good USA rimfire shortly appeared and disappeared around the time of the LA Olympic Games. Federal Gold Match with the dimpled primer.

strange indeed

BenEnglishTX · Post by **BenEnglishTX** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:55 pm

Karas wrote:...the USA. I find it exceptionally amazing that Olympic shooting events are not as popular as they should be IMO.

Going a bit off-topic, but I'll steer back.

The Olympics (and things that leads there) are special. In the U.S., shooting is not special. It's easily accessible and cheap, relative to most of the rest of the world. I once read that shooting is the second most popular participation sport in the U.S. after running. It's common. The competition landscape is incredibly diverse and fractured, so much so that it's impossible to keep up with all the different games people play with guns. Because of this, sometimes people forget just how pervasive and ordinary shooting for trophies or just for fun is in the U.S.

The free pistols I started this thread asking about aren't common or cheap or ordinary. They are "special" in every positive sense of the word. Thus, they just don't mesh with the attitudes that most gun owners have in the U.S. If you shoot the free pistol, you think of shooting as something special; that's not the attitude of most U.S. gun owners.

However, there are fascinating exceptions to every rule. That's why I asked about U.S.-made free pistols. Anyone in the U.S. who wants to go to the trouble to make a free pistol is someone with a distinctly out-of-the-ordinary outlook on shooting sports relative to the general U.S. gun-owning population. That's why I find them interesting and why I was trying to get a handle on how many different ones had been made since WWII.

So, once again - we have the Tompkins, High Standard, and Green. Are there any others?

NikNak · Post by **NikNak** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:03 pm

I think Beeman made a FP in USA. I held one at a gun show in WI back in 2004 .... the piece appeared to have been made in the 1970's - It "looked" like an FP, yet the trigger wasn't up to par with other FPs ... the trigger was about 1.5# ....

BenEnglishTX · Post by **BenEnglishTX** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:37 pm

NikNak wrote:I think Beeman made a FP in USA. I held one at a gun show in WI back in 2004 .... the piece appeared to have been made in the 1970's - It "looked" like an FP, yet the trigger wasn't up to par with other FPs ... the trigger was about 1.5# ....

What did it look like? What sort of action, etc.?

I've seen imported pistols with various U.S. marks. I once saw a Drulov with importer marks and I don't know how Mandall marked the Gauchers that passed through their hands. Might it have been something like those?

FredB · Post by **FredB** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:18 pm

NikNak wrote:I think Beeman made a FP in USA. I held one at a gun show in WI back in 2004 .... the piece appeared to have been made in the 1970's - It "looked" like an FP, yet the trigger wasn't up to par with other FPs ... the trigger was about 1.5# ....

Beeman didn't make anything - he just imported lots of things and put his name on them in prominent large letters. I suspect you are referring to the Rohm single-shot pistol he imported at one point. Kind of in the same class as the Drulov, but maybe not as good?

FredB

NikNak · Post by **NikNak** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:51 pm

FredB wrote:
NikNak wrote:I think Beeman made a FP in USA. I held one at a gun show in WI back in 2004 .... the piece appeared to have been made in the 1970's - It "looked" like an FP, yet the trigger wasn't up to par with other FPs ... the trigger was about 1.5# ....
Beeman didn't make anything - he just imported lots of things and put his name on them in prominent large letters. I suspect you are referring to the Rohm single-shot pistol he imported at one point. Kind of in the same class as the Drulov, but maybe not as good?
FredB

Fred, I pulled out my "Standard Catalogue of Firearms" and they have a pic of an SP & SP Deluxe ... Described as an 22lr single shot target pistol with an 8 or 15" barrel. The pic does look like a Drulov, but the the one I held in my hands had a "button" as a trigger instead of the standard trigger shown... and had a more "GI 1911 45 rake" to the grips.

I am sure you are right that it was imported and it may have been from Erma instead of Drulov due to the style in the reference catalogue so I guess it couldn't be considered US made.

From 1925-1936, S&W did make a single shot "Straight Line Single Shot" pistol that looked a little like the later Model 41, but not sure it was considered to be a "Free Pistol." I've heard it referred to as the "Camp Perry Model."

nvalcik · Post by **nvalcik** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:22 am

I think I can shed some light on the Beeman product. I actually used to own one of those pistols which was called a Rhoner and if I remember correctly was imported by Beeman from Germany. I actually bought mine used from a person that owned it that was on Texas Tech's (now defunct) pistol team. The person I bought it from was a mechanical engineer and therefore had several interesting trigger modifications (i.e. ball point pen springs). So the trigger on my gun in particular was fairly good and I did well with it.

My Co-Captain at UT-Dallas also bought one and converted his Rhoner to look like a Hammerli 150 by putting a fore end on it from the trigger guard and a wrap around grip made out of fiberglass and plywood. I know in one collegiate free pistol match he shot a 525 and then the next match the gun literally broke apart a piece of metal bar where the bolt was attached to the receiver. He then bought mine and made one gun out of it. As far as I know another former team mate still has it and uses it on occasion.

Overall it was at the time a light weight free pistol substitute that was much better than using a standard pistol and served as a good backup to my Hammerli 152 when the electronic trigger keep breaking.

Nick

Leon · Post by **Leon** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:06 pm

Coastwatcher wrote:http://www.histandard.info/EFP/ST1960Y04-5M200R.pdf

Very interesting. Amazing technology for the time. I want to buy one now !

red9 · Post by **red9** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:03 pm

There was one other American pistol, actually a variation. This was the Electroarm, which was a continuation of the Green. I have an article about the High Standard indicating that it was planned for commercial production, but they only made about a dozen for the Army team.

Bob

BenEnglishTX · Post by **BenEnglishTX** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:47 pm

red9 wrote:There was one other...the Electroarm...

Now that you've mentioned the name, it definitely rings a bell. I had completely forgotten. Thanks.

Tompkins, High Standard, Green, Electroarm - At this point, I'd guess that's about all. Thanks to everyone for the great info.

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:33 pm

There is a thread here that mentions the Green and the Electroarm variant and has some links to the history:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

I wonder why the economics of manufacturing these pistols failed. FP is obviously a small niche market, but I would have thought that if a company could be successful making niche arms in Europe, the difficulties should be no greater here. A manufacturer like S&W or Colt could produce such items as a prestige line - they are making good money from their service and civilian sales, aren't they?

Of course, it would help if some of the Olympic shooting sports were available on mass media, but that's another rant entirely.

Roger

TargetTalk

US-made free pistols

US-made free pistols

USA Made Free Pistol

Hi-Standard Free Pistol

Re: Hi-Standard Free Pistol

Amazing really if you think about it......

Re: Amazing really if you think about it......

not Beeman

Re: not Beeman

RE: American Made Free Pistol