Beware of paypal

[David W. Johnson]

I've used it for years and thought it was great.

I recently sold a scope, scope stand and few other shooting things to someone on Targettalk. He paid with paypal. The post office lost the rods to the scope stand. He got the empty tube (signature required). I reported it. The post office said they had a system for finding them, but it took time. I kept the buyer informed. He was getting anxious, so I purchased brand new rods for him and had them shipped to him. He sent me an email confirming he had everything. I went into paypal to discover he had reported to them that he did not receive anything. I gave their dispute center the story and a copy of his email confirming receipt. They gave him a refund. I called the dispute center to find out why. They told me that his signature was irrelevant and his email confirming receipt was irrelevant. I had to have a tracking number or they give a refund. They said if you read their suggestions for safe selling, they recommend tracking numbers.

From now on, I'll use cashier's checks and money orders.

[vHoff]

I think there's a greater risk, too. PayPal's acceptable use policy forbids the use of PayPal to pay for:


(i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories


It's vague on the "firearm accessories" part, but that probably just gives them even more leeway to @#$% you over. I've read a report about how a guy sold a gun, the payer labeled the receipt as "payment for rifle" and PayPal ended up freezing the seller's account for 6 months, all the funds, etc.


Personally, I'd just avoid PayPal like the plague. USPS Money Order's always good and it doesn't take a cut off the top...



Source:

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd= ... leUse_full

[TerryKuz]

I use UPS (edit, typo, USPS money order) money orders 99% of the time. It protects both parties.
Funny but I had some guys promise that they sent a USPS money order and a check showed up. I had this happen 3 times, each time the check went back and I canceled the deal.

[softreset]

I think there's a greater risk, too. PayPal's acceptable use policy forbids the use of PayPal to pay for:

(i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories

Wow... good to know. I just sold a rifle stock to someone via PayPal. Hopefully I don't have a horror story to report in a couple of days. I've been using PayPal since before it was called that (X.com). I've probably done about 3,000 transactions and never once had a problem with anything until eBay got involved. Since then I've had close to 100 transactions (in someway or another) not going swimmingly due to some funky "rule" by PayPal. Either they'd hold funds, not allow me to transfer the funds, only let me get a prepaid debt card with the funds, etc. Some real questionable antics.

By the way, Terry. Are you referring to USPS Money Orders? Or UPS? I've used USPS but I was unaware UPS offered them. If so, I'll look into them as well because my local Post Office branch just closed.

[justadude]

Also recall that late fall/early winter it was the geniuses at PayPal that ordered the destruction of a violin valued at $2500 because the buyer decided that it was a fake. No "Could you please verify your claim?", no "Could you ship it to us for evaluation?" Simply, "If it is counterfeit, destroy it, send us the picture and we will give you your money back." The net result is the seller is out both $2500 and the violin on the single claim of a buyer with unknown credentials and expertise in violins.

It appears that common sense, or even conscious thought, is a rare commodity in the halls of PayPal.

For small stuff, yeah I use PayPal, mostly because buyers find it convenient and often expect it. I groan when PP takes their cut but also realize I live in a competitive smallbore desert and online selling is a way for my older stuff to have another life and help out a newer shooter rather than just gather dust in the basement, where of course it has no value to anyone.

For larger stuff, yeah almost any other method is preferable. I will even take a personal check with the agreement I will wait 10 days to make sure it is good before I ship before I let PP take their cut. I find most buyers are very agreeable to this.

Latest PP snafu duly noted. Thanks for the warning.

Cheers,
'Dude

[76Olympian]

I've also heard of PayPal account holders having their PayPal accounts closed when PayPal discovered that they were simply gun related customers, not necessarily selling guns, but just gun related businesses.

[melina]

I've also heard of PayPal account holders having their PayPal accounts closed when PayPal discovered that they were simply gun related customers, not necessarily selling guns, but just gun related businesses.

I have heard this about PP too. They are so darned convenient in many ways, but if time is not a factor, a money order gets around their cut and their prying eyes. So far, I've had no personal bad experiences though.

Also, over the years, PP and ebay have become much more customer friendly, at the expense of sellers. The violin story is a good example of this. If you are selling something with them, you have got to CYA!

From experience selling many things on ebay, these are my rules of thumb selling to strangers online:
1. Money orders are better than personal checks, unless they are willing to wait 10 days for the check to clear.
2. Always use a tracking number, no matter what. USPS calls it a "delivery confirmation" number. This proves the customer got the package, so he/she can't claim otherwise and ask for a refund, getting the item for free.
3. For anything worth $100 or more, I nearly always use UPS. They guarantee delivery, include $100 insurance free (extra isn't too expensive) and their tracking number goes every step of the way. They are just more dependable than the postal service.

Hope this helps a little in the fight for peaceable trade of shooting goods!! :)

[Richard H]

Unfortunately it's a two way street I'm sure there are as many buyers who've been burned sending money orders that didn't get what they ordered, what recourse do they have.

[ShootingSight]

I am truly surprised at the violin story, since you have constitutional protection against being deprived of property without due process.

That said, user agreement to terms and conditions is binding, so if the terms say they can destroy fakes and that you agree that the buyers claim rules, I'm not sure what recourse you have.

My buddy sold something, the customer wanted to return it for refund. It was poorly packed, the package opened, and he got an empty package delivered (not sure what service). The buyer claimed, the money was withdrawn from his account, and he had nothing to say about it.

PayPal wants to keep customers happy. Sellers know they have to take it as a cost of business, or lose sales.

As to USPS money orders, I hate being asked for them. I have to go to the PO, and they only take cash or debit, which is an extra pain in the rear for Quickbooks to track.