Wondering if anyone else runs into the same problems as I do.
Coaching my youth transitioning from Precision Air to Small Bore seems to be excruciatingly troublesome for some and not so much for others.
Any insights as to why? I am thinking more along the lines of weight going from a 9-10 lb Air rifle to a 16-18 lb SB is a huge jump and so would like to hear if anyone has seen any improvement from a lighter weight small bore say in the 12 - 14 lb range.
Watching a fairly advanced Air shooter do his best to do it all as good as possible (good position, recoil straight up and settle back, all in all looks good) shoots 570's+ in 3-P Air drops to 480's in SB proves to be frustrating for shooters and myself as well.
How could I help them make a more successful / less stressful transition?
Making the change - Precision Air - SB
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
You are seeing something I ran into with some teammates in college. They came from an air rifle background, I came from a smallbore background, and all three of us had to pick up the other discipline.
I took to air quite easily because there was no recoil. The air rifle goes off, and the shot is where it was pointing. Simple and really easy.
For the air to smallbore transition, all of a sudden, the gun jumps and there's a shot down there somewhere. If the gun jumped like that in air, it would be an 8 or 7 out the top. This was the main complaint my teammates had with the transition, and those were 570-580 international air rifle shooters coming into college.
The rifle weight wasn't an issue, though the more barrel heavy balance took some getting used to, but was often offset by the hook buttplate.
My suggestion would be to have them concentrate on the shot up to the recoil. Tell them to let the recoil happen and watch what it does. Have your shooters shoot groups on plain black bulls (no scoring rings) so they can get used to the recoil and calling shots based on what they see.
After they start getting noticeable groups, pair them off for a shot calling competition. 10 shots finals style by pairs, they get the value of their shot, but get 1 bonus point for calling the correct direction of the shot, 2 bonus points for the correct shot value. For 10s, they automatically get the 3 total bonus points simply by calling it a ten. That will mentally reinforce what they saw through the sights to get that 10.
I took to air quite easily because there was no recoil. The air rifle goes off, and the shot is where it was pointing. Simple and really easy.
For the air to smallbore transition, all of a sudden, the gun jumps and there's a shot down there somewhere. If the gun jumped like that in air, it would be an 8 or 7 out the top. This was the main complaint my teammates had with the transition, and those were 570-580 international air rifle shooters coming into college.
The rifle weight wasn't an issue, though the more barrel heavy balance took some getting used to, but was often offset by the hook buttplate.
My suggestion would be to have them concentrate on the shot up to the recoil. Tell them to let the recoil happen and watch what it does. Have your shooters shoot groups on plain black bulls (no scoring rings) so they can get used to the recoil and calling shots based on what they see.
After they start getting noticeable groups, pair them off for a shot calling competition. 10 shots finals style by pairs, they get the value of their shot, but get 1 bonus point for calling the correct direction of the shot, 2 bonus points for the correct shot value. For 10s, they automatically get the 3 total bonus points simply by calling it a ten. That will mentally reinforce what they saw through the sights to get that 10.
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bpscCheney
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Hmm... I'm 6'5" and all I know is that it is less than 8kg or 17ish pounds I'd estimate its weight to be around 6.5-7kg 14-15 pounds and I use that for 3 position rifle (great advantage of a wood stocked gun is that they are exceedingly light weight). My air rifle actually feels heavier than my smallbore despite the fact that it is about a pound lighter (just the fact that metal is much smaller and weighs for than wood) I'd say my Feinwerkbau currently is weighing in at 5kg, but I still have some weighting to do.
I think that if you are concerned with the weight to have them work out a little bit or switch them to wood stocked guns (although you will likely give up some customization in order to do so).
I think that if you are concerned with the weight to have them work out a little bit or switch them to wood stocked guns (although you will likely give up some customization in order to do so).
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Maxicooper
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:06 am
- Location: Ellicott City, MD
It's all about balance, and over the years, I've noticed the trend move more towards the lighter rifles for position shooters. Just look at the diameter difference between barrels of an 18XX variety vs. the 19 and 20 series Supermatch barrels of today. I'd be willing to bet the problem is with front heavy rifles, not heavy rifles in general.
In our program, the kids who shoot Precision Air practice on the International discipline (standing) ... any 3-P practice comes from smallbore.
(They all come out of a 3-P sporter air program - we're a 4-H club)
I hope I don't irritate anyone, but in our state a 570 3-P air probably will not get you into the final. IMO a 570 3-P air shooter certainly has a few technique things that a coach can be working on. (and if they have good technique, it may be mental)
Now that said, I would think that a 570 3-P air shooter should, right off the bat, be at least 520 or so in 3-P smallbore. That's shooting a decently fitted rifle, and not too heavy ... 14 lbs may be kinda heavy. Any of our shooters I try and get them to get a lighter rifle ... for gals I really like the 1912, guys a 1913 super match .... wood stocks, but that's just me and my crew.
Two years ago a shooter (not one of mine), who is now shooting collegiate, who shot high 580's/low 590's in 3-P air came to our JO qualifier, borrowed a (very light) CM-2, and shot a 567 smallbore with it (maybe 1 practice session I think). Last year she walked in with her own 1912, and again with minimal practice won the state with a 580.
To me ---- that tells me (especially with the gals) don't go too heavy.
(They all come out of a 3-P sporter air program - we're a 4-H club)
I hope I don't irritate anyone, but in our state a 570 3-P air probably will not get you into the final. IMO a 570 3-P air shooter certainly has a few technique things that a coach can be working on. (and if they have good technique, it may be mental)
Now that said, I would think that a 570 3-P air shooter should, right off the bat, be at least 520 or so in 3-P smallbore. That's shooting a decently fitted rifle, and not too heavy ... 14 lbs may be kinda heavy. Any of our shooters I try and get them to get a lighter rifle ... for gals I really like the 1912, guys a 1913 super match .... wood stocks, but that's just me and my crew.
Two years ago a shooter (not one of mine), who is now shooting collegiate, who shot high 580's/low 590's in 3-P air came to our JO qualifier, borrowed a (very light) CM-2, and shot a 567 smallbore with it (maybe 1 practice session I think). Last year she walked in with her own 1912, and again with minimal practice won the state with a 580.
To me ---- that tells me (especially with the gals) don't go too heavy.
Thank you all for your insight. Joel, you know who I'm talking about. He invariably grabs the heaviest most tricked out rig available and I think that is the primary problem, that is a front heavy rifle that he is not accustomed to. Will try him on a lighter rifle to prove once and for all to him and myself and will post the results. hopefully in the not so distant future.
Thanks again
Thanks again
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WesternGrizzly
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 pm
I like both a heavy and light rifle. In my opinion, its all about the way it balances. My air rifle is lighter than my free rifle, but it balances more rearward than my free rifle. My hold in standing is much smaller with my air rifle than my free rifle because of it.
That being said, I think a well balanced mid weight rifle would be optimal for a younger shooter. But there are some who like shooting a heavy rifle. My female teammate shoots very very well with a rifle that is about 2 oz under the limit for women's sport rifle. It is actually heavier than my free rifle.
Matt
That being said, I think a well balanced mid weight rifle would be optimal for a younger shooter. But there are some who like shooting a heavy rifle. My female teammate shoots very very well with a rifle that is about 2 oz under the limit for women's sport rifle. It is actually heavier than my free rifle.
Matt