Scaled down target question

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:03 am

I have been shooting FP for fun at an indoor range with max distance of 25 yds. I've been using targets that were scaled down to 20 m using the Scatt software which I've printed at work for about a nickel a page. However, where I work has contracted out printing services and personal printing is not going to be available so I would like to know if there is a commercially available target that would work.

Thanks

Roger

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:27 pm

Check here as they have a variety of targets. I have never seen a Free Pistol target that is 25 yard but they do have 50 foot. -- Bill --
http://americantargetcompany.com/pistol_targets.asp

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:28 pm

Thanks for the tip - a fifty foot target would work just fine. As you suggested, I checked out American Target but wasn't sure what I was looking for. I found the Kreuger target website which has the bullseye dimensions of the various targets and that may have helped. The nomenclature is a bit confusing especially since there are 2 sanctioning bodies, the NRA and the ISSF, and targets often have a UIT designation which I believe is the old name for the ISSF. However, the target I think you mean is the NRA B-11 which is simply called the "50 Foot International Slow Fire Pistol Target"

But I crunched the numbers and something doesn't quite add up. The official FP target is the NRA B-17 which has a 200 mm bull. At 50 m distance, that is a visual angle of .229 degrees in round numbers.

The B-11which has a bull of 2.25" has a visual angle of .215 degrees. In order to look exactly the same as a 50 m target, the bull would have to be 2.40".

Is the discrepancy because the bullet hole itself does not scale for distance since a relatively larger hole would give higher scores? Or am I overthinking this way too much?

Roger

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:01 pm

You are not over thinking but are correct. When shooting Bullseye there are slowfire targets for 50 yards, 25 yards, 20 yards, and 50 feet and they are not proportional. My feeling is that it is much easier to shoot a good score at 25 yards and the hardest at 50 feet. Some of this stuff might have been thought up a long time ago and possibly they even hedged one way or another just to make up for the lack of individual gun accuracy at 50 yards which was a problem then but not much of a factor anymore. I'm sure that bullet diameter is considered too because just the difference of shooting a 32 or a 45 at 50 foot is a lot. The advantage of the 32's less recoil is offset in this case by the size of the 45 hole. -- Bill --.

SMBeyer · Post by **SMBeyer** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:47 pm

The fifty foot free pistol target is the B-11 but in a pinch you can shoot a 10m airpistol target at 50 feet. It is not exactly the same but it is very close. The free pistol target is actually slightly smaller. Scott

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:28 am

Okay - got it.

Scott, I did a quick calculation on the 10 m AP target at 51 ft - the target carriers at the range are set to yards and that's 17 yd - and the 59.5 mm bull is almost spot on at .219 deg which makes it just a titch smaller than the standard FP or about the same as the B-11. Which is great because I have a lot of AP targets.

Although, if Bill is right about 50 ft being inherently more difficult than 50 m, then I am just adding to the challenge. Frankly, if you could see the targets I've shot you'd know that I'm already quite challenged. But, heck, if it was easy it wouldn't be so much fun.

Thanks

Roger

waxman · Post by **waxman** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:25 am

These folks at Target Express allow you to scale your targets for any distance:
http://www.mcw-tech.com/targetexpress/
John

paw080 · Post by **paw080** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:48 am

Hi Roger, Please join this Yahoo Group:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Free_Pistol/

Then look at Files and scroll down to Targets. There, you'll find what you are
looking for; a scaled down 25yd FP target....

Tony

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Hi, Tony -

Actually, I am a member of the Yahoo Free_Pistol group. The problem is not that I don't have a prototype scaled target to print from - it's that I have lost the privilege of cheap printing. Oh, and my home printer does not like large, solid black fields. I suppose I could get them printed at Office Despot or such, but as long as I'm going to pay for them anyway I'd just as soon have them done on a proper card stock.

Roger

jtg · Post by **jtg** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:57 am

Here is a link to our host site that has done all the work. This lists the official and simulated targets for the disciplines and ranges.

http://www.pilkguns.com/ipts.shtml

jtg

John Zurek · Post by **John Zurek** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:18 am

hi roger, not to pee on your parade...but, don nygord was quoted as saying "shoot free pistol at 25yards until you can keep them all in the 10 ring, then move it out to 50m"
he is implying that you use the same target as 50.

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:50 am

Hi, John -

I'm not a parade, more of a solo act. (And peeing in public may get you some unwanted attention from the local constabulary.)

I hesitate to decline a teaching from Don Nygord, especially when passed on by a shooter the stature of John Zurek, but it is not quite relevant to my situation. I want to improve my shooting as an indication of how I'm improving my ability to focus and calm my mind in the way that meditation does. To that end alone, you are quite correct: the size of the target is not relevant and improved group size and consistency are sufficient. However, using a target that simulates the "real thing" does add a bit of interest to the exercise, and if I ever stumble into an actual competition I will have an idea of how far down in the pack I might finish. I don't have access to a 50 m range - there is a sportsman's club in the area, but it is relatively expensive and not convenient - so three times a week I stop off at Bud's Gun Warehouse and Police Supply on the way home from work and hit the range there to get my Zen on.

Roger

John Zurek · Post by **John Zurek** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:13 pm

I like your reply roger...

my two cents....you will find greater "zen", the greater the duration...

the russian advocate 4 hours... I said "but I am training two hours early morning and two hours after work" ...they replied "4 hours at one time"....

good shooting

dflast · Post by **dflast** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:26 pm

The 25 Yd free-pistol target is B-35: "International 25-Yard Slow Fire Pistol Target (50 meter international slow fire target reduced for use at 25 yards)" Not commonly stocked but appear to be available directly from National Target.

David

ModestoPete · Post by **ModestoPete** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:08 pm

That is correct. I am looking at a package of 100 of those targets now. I have purchased 50 ft, 25 yard and 50 yard and meter targets so I can practice on the same target as any upcoming match.

ModestoPete · Post by **ModestoPete** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:19 pm

That is correct. I am looking at a package of 100 of those targets now. I have purchased 50 ft, 25 yard and 50 yard and meter targets so I can practice on the same target as any upcoming match.

NikNak · Post by **NikNak** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:18 am

Ok, so this is a little off course, but has anyone shot rifle targets in place of pistol targets? A while back(10 yrs ago) I was shooting allot of 50' indoor bullseye with a really small red dot. A buddy & I began shooting the 10-bull rifle targets at 50' and it really made me concentrate on hold, trigger, follow through etc..

Has anyone tried this with iron sites ... FP or AP? It's the inverse of what Mr Zurek was quoting from Mr Nygord.

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