10m air rifle standing position , and FWB300s

peashooter · Post by **peashooter** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:21 am

My question is regarding the position of the left elbow ( for a right handed shooter) - I have read many times that the elbow should be on the hip bone, so that bones are doing all the supporting. Do people actually achieve this? For whatever reason I find it hard to reach the rifle to support it - only the fist method gets close.
Of course one of my reasons for my difficulty might be my rifle - a FWB300SU. Am I attempting a more modern position that the rifle won't accomodate? I have extended the butt for my lop and lowered the plate to bring my head more upright. I put a 20mm packer in front of the trigger guard, but this is still not enough for me.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:45 am

Its more inclined to be women that can rest on the hip, most men rest between rib cage and hip. The basic dimensions of AR's regs are little changed from the 300's days and there is a max dimension of the forend depth from barrel line so I doubt that the 20 mm is legal. We have a 300's club rifle and have no problem getting shooters into the modern stances.
Find a club with experienced standing shooters or coaches as the position is quite technical and they will help you move on a lot more.
Good shooting.
Robin

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:28 pm

NO, I cannot reach my hip w the left elbow.
My left elbow gets down to the bottom of my rib cage.

You try to duplicate a stance to the best of your ability, but if your body does not allow it, don't worry about it.

In the case of my left arm,
- the rifle pushes down on the fist and arm
- the arm pull down in the shoulder socket
- the shoulder pulls down against the spine

Do NOT use muscle to hold up the rifle, let the weight of the rifle push down and tighten the tendons and joints. Think of it like pulling a string. You can only pull so far, then you have tension on the string creating stability where you cannot pull the string any further. That is how I was taught to shoot AR.

Rest the upper arm against the side of your chest. This is where a HIGH FRICTION sleeve and side of jacket helps to stabilize the arm against the side of your chest.

stevep · Post by **stevep** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:41 pm

I must be unusual - I have no problem getting my elbow on hip - and I'm a 45 yr old bloke. But, I have been stretching regularly for many years. But there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to do it after a while, if you work up to it.

I'm not convinced that it helps my shooting - getting the elbow to a stable position is more important, which may or may not be on the hip.

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:39 pm

If you can put your elbow on your hip depends on 3 things, and they interrelate. The length of your upper arm, and the length of your upper body, and how much you bend your upper body to the left.
Long upper arm short upper body, not a problem.
Short upper arm long upper body, NO WAY.

Then bend the upper body to the left to lower your left arm. But then you have to tilt your hip to the right to compensate. This is a heck of a bend for my back...I'll pass.

peashooter · Post by **peashooter** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:40 am

Very interested that the regulations for rifle dimensions haven't changed a whole lot in 30 years. I checked the ISSF rules and 90mm is the max foreend distance so I was a bit over - have removed the packer now. Also checked the butt plate distance which can be a max of 220mm to the bottom end of the plate.

Does anyone know if it is possible to raise the sights on the FWB300SU? My rifle already has the high front sight and one standard sight raiser at the rear in place (giving 35mm)

I will concentrate on finding a repeatable comfortable stance and not get all hung up on the hip resting thing, which was starting to really bother me. It was a relief to hear it wasn't a requirement......!

I will try to find a coach to check my position.

Thankyou all for your input.

yana · Post by **yana** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:21 am

Also depends on how far you can bend backwards (shift yr hip forwards).
Also, many get better in it over time. As you start, those muscles arent used to anything like this.
I can rest my elbow on móre than my hip, but I'm hypermobile..;)
Using the ribcage is ok, but I find its less stable.

You could also try using something like a standing-block, to give more height when shooting standing. They normally easily attach to the UITrail.

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:48 pm

P
Raising the sights depends on the front sight, and if the front sight is detachable from the base or not. The early front sights were one piece, the base that went around the barrel and the tunnel. The very later ones were 2-piece (base and tunnel separate pieces).
Can you retrofit the later sight onto your rifle? It depends on the location of the tapered pin that secures the front sight to the barrel. I think, if the pin is on the bottom, then you can. If the pin is on the top, then you cannot.

I think the max is 60mm from center of barrel to center of sight.

peashooter · Post by **peashooter** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:23 pm

My front sight consists of a dovetail that is part of the barrel ( well, its machined on the top of a part that goes around the barrel and is pinned through under the barrel), and a removable tunnel with dovetail base. The dovetail measures 12.92mm outer and 10.6mm inner.

Just to be tricky, the rear sight dovetail on the reciever is 11.54mm outer.

The size is probably what is loosely called 11mm dovetail, but there seems to be a wide range to what this is. I think the only way will be to physically try different parts, or machine something up myself.

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:05 pm

OK since you can put a sight riser under the front sight, then you can raise the sights as needed to fit you.
The tricky part is getting the correct riser. Some designs are clamp on, so tolerance is not that critical. Others are machined so they slide on, and in that case the tolerance IS critical. You need to find one that is a clamp on design.

Man I wish Neal Johnson was still in business.

peashooter · Post by **peashooter** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:49 am

Looking around I found a cheap no-name 11mm to 22mm dovetail scope base adaptor that has a removable top. With the top 22mm adapter plate removed it has an 11mm dovetail on the top. It works out as a 15mm riser block.