Scatt how to get the best & started

sunalert · Post by **sunalert** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:01 am

Hi All
I wonder could any of you Scatt users help me. I recently acquired a second hand Scatt from Ebay it came with all the bits including a small booklet on setting it up, the booklet is very basic and I was wondering is there any other publication out there on paper or on the net that go in to more detail about scatt. I shoot .22 rim @ 25y prone and also 7.62 (not at 25 yard though).
Any help would be very much appreciated as I feel I am in the dark to how to use this exciting tool.
Good shooting.

Rutty · Post by **Rutty** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:26 am

If you are located in the UK, we shall be running a Scatt course at Holwell Rifle Club in the near future.

Rutty

sunalert · Post by **sunalert** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:34 am

Hi Rutty
A course sound good, you are about 200 miles from me as i am based in Chichester West Sussex, but i would be keen to drive up and make a two day trip out of it. Do you know of any publication on scatt?

Thank Sunalert

Rutty · Post by **Rutty** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:27 pm

There is this:

http://www.gunsnot.com/pdfs/scatt%20man ... -18-03.pdf

It is a written for a an older version of the software and there are a few bits in it that might not be quite correct (who knows!), but it should give you a start.

Rutty

sunalert · Post by **sunalert** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:05 am

Hi Rutty

Thank you for that link, I will start to go through it. I think what would be good would be someone who know scatt to start a u-tube course of short videos. I had a look at u-tube all i can find of interest is the scatt promotion video, what is needed is short videos that go into real detail, perhaps there could be some financial reward through advertising, but don’t ask me how, this appears to be the trend.

Sunalert

Rutty · Post by **Rutty** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:42 am

There is a plan to write a Scatt guide and I know who the author might be. However, how far this has progressed since I do not know. Producing video is another matter all together, it take a lot of time and expertise to achieve a useable result, i.e. time and money!

Apart from that, top Scatt tip of the day:

The least looked at and probably the most useful single page on Scatt is the Summary Page (Info button). Make sure that you understand what it contains.

Rutty

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:40 am

Rutty wrote:It is a written for a an older version of the software and there are a few bits in it that might not be quite correct (who knows!), but it should give you a start.

The explanation of the F-coefficient on page 9 is rubbish.

It's not Scott's fault though. Like all of us he believed the BS that Scatt published up until 8-9 years ago; they now do not even seem to acknowledge that they ever printed it.

The F-cofficient is simply a variable that offsets the recorded "shot hole" by a certain amount after the recorded trigger break. The greater the F-coefficient, the greater the delay.

KennyB · Post by **KennyB** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:48 am

Hi Dave,
I'm going to respectfully question your interpretation of the F-coefficient - to me it seems that it displaces the shot hole in the direction that the barrel is moving at the moment of release, by an amount that depends on the speed at which the barrel is moving at the moment of release (multiplied by the F-Coefficient).
Is that your understanding too?

Sunalert - have you got the thing working and producing traces?
If so then the fun stuff can begin...

My SCATT tip of the day: once you've mounted the sensor on the barrel use a piece of electrical tape to fix the cable to the barrel too - this stops the weight of the cable dragging on the back of the sensor. Worth it if only for peace of mind that the sensor isn't being disturbed from shot to shot.

Ken.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:05 pm

KennyB wrote: I'm going to respectfully question your interpretation of the F-coefficient - to me it seems that it displaces the shot hole in the direction that the barrel is moving at the moment of release, by an amount that depends on the speed at which the barrel is moving at the moment of release (multiplied by the F-Coefficient).
Is that your understanding too?

I think we're talking about the same thing Ken. As the amount of offset is time based the amount and direction will certainly be affected by the direction and speed of movement at the moment the system senses the trigger release.

Slow down the speed of barrel movement and the "shot hole" will move less during the time delay.

My point is that it's a simple calculation based on speed, direction and time rather than being based on some mythical combination of other factors. Those factors will probably have an effect on the bullet's flight, but they have no part in the calculation of the theoretical "shot hole" position.

KennyB · Post by **KennyB** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:35 pm

Absolutely Dave.

BTW. I hope you're well - I haven't see you in ages.

Regards,
Ken.

sunalert · Post by **sunalert** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:44 pm

Hi Rutty, I look forward to the guide, and good tip, I just had a look at the info button by looking an example match 10 shots, I see what you mean, I will play with that when I am next set up.

David and Kenny, interesting about the F-coefficient, would you suggest a value to set the F-coefficient, I am setting the scatt to shooting 22 prone 50m, I see Scott's suggest 80 +- 10 would you go with that?

Dave, thanks for your tip that sound sensible and will adopt taping the cable to the barrel.

And Kenny, yes I do have the thing working and producing traces for the first time this weekend so fun has begun.

I do have a couple of question that are bugging me if anyone can help.

I shoot 25yard .22 prone, I can’t set this as an option on the scatt should I set it at 25m or 50m or does it matter, as I think I understand I should not try to replicate live fire, but just concentrate on other factors. This brings me to the next question what in your opinion is the most important thing to concentrate on with scatt?
Thanks for all your help.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:36 pm

My understanding of the F-coefficient is that it is a delay time to account for the barrel time and time of flight of the projectile. We have had this discussion before.
Certainly the time of flight is based on distance to target divided by the speed of the projectile. But, the speed of the projectile decreases over time due to drag. Projectile shape is a big factor in this regard. Drag is also either increased or decreased slightly based on the particular environmental conditions. High density air (cold, dry) will slow the projectile more than if the same shot were made in low density air (hot, moist) air. Perhaps a problem in translation in those earlier help files.

Regardless, the virtual shot hole in the target is a guesstimate of where the actual shot would have hit based on the velocity (direction and speed) of the movement at the time of the shot. Don't get too wrapped up in why or how it works just pick one and use it. I recommend 25 as a good starting point.

Marcus

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:16 pm

I think we use 35 or 45 for prone but as Marcus says just pick one and stick with it.

Rob.

sunalert · Post by **sunalert** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:43 pm

Thank you Marcus and Rob, 25, 35 or 45 I will give them a go when I get down next.

As there is a lot of information to take in at the start, does anyone have any thoughts on what in your opinion is the most important thing to concentrate on with scatt?

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:09 am

sunalert wrote:Thank you Marcus and Rob, 25, 35 or 45 I will give them a go when I get down next.

As there is a lot of information to take in at the start, does anyone have any thoughts on what in your opinion is the most important thing to concentrate on with scatt?

The most important thing to concentrate on is shooting normally. Try and as closely as possible replicate what you do when you shoot live fire. So set up an ammo box with snap caps in and load / empty as you would with live ammo.

Collect the data you have and compare it from session to session. Some things you can look at and learn from at the time other things are more trends you can follow longer term. So for example trace length, with quality trainig your hold should improve and trace length comes down, which equally should be reflected in the 10a and 10.5a values (% of time in an area the size of the 10 or 10.5 ring respectively - in the last second).

Don't also forget to observe the traces at the end. Your approach into the target should be the same for every shot (straight up from 6 O-clock) and your follow through should be in the same direction and steady / small red trace.

Rob.

Rutty · Post by **Rutty** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:27 am

First of all I shall endorse what Rob said:

Don't also forget to observe the traces at the end. Your approach into the target should be the same for every shot (straight up from 6 O-clock) and your follow through should be in the same direction and steady / small red trace.

Look for consistency and if you don't find it try and work out why not and make changes to improve it.

I shoot 25yard .22 prone, I can’t set this as an option on the scatt should I set it at 25m or 50m

I would recommend using 50mtrs as you will get a target that you can relate to and a bit more dispersion. The latter might make trends more obvious.

Rutty

sunalert · Post by **sunalert** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:32 pm

Hi Bob & Rutty,
Thank you, you have all been very helpful, I am looking forward to putting all you have said into practice. I will report back.
Sunalert