Upgrade to a red dot

[prohjac]

Got a question, how much does the red dot affect scores?
I bought a ruger mark iii target with a BSA red dot a few years ago used. My average has slowly climbed to the high 260's. I don't have the money to upgrade the pistol, I have already put the volquartsen trigger in. Would upgrading the red dot make a difference? If so what would you reccomend?

[Rover]

If you can't shoot iron sights a Red Dot is easier. Everything is on the same plane instead of trying to integrate three items (front, rear, and target).

That's no help if you shoot Olympic pistol which requires iron sights.

[Trooperjake]

If you have old eyes like I do, it's heaven sent.
It takes a little getting used to. You have to learn to pull the trigger properly. It is easier to pull the trigger with irons. (in my view)
I would not hesitate buying one, I love the Ultradot Match dot from Larry's.
Good luck...

[william]

If you can't shoot iron sights

Everybody CAN shoot iron sights. It's a matter of how much one wishes to apply oneself.

[marvelshooter]

Do you mean getting a dot that is better than the BSA that came on your Ruger? If so it won't help at all unless there is something wrong with yours.

[prohjac]

I guess my question is are their different levels of red dots?

[marvelshooter]

Some are better quality than others and some have variable sized dots and maybe even different colored dots but they all do the same thing and work the same way. So unless something is wrong with it your BSA will serve you just as well as a new more expensive one.

[jackh]

For any bullseye 22 I suggest the 1" Ultradot 4 dot. I like the larger dot because it is easier to pick up peripherally as I look at the bull. People say the Aimpoint Micro is top of the line sight. It may be, but I have to have a full length tube. I even use the 1" 4 dot on 45. I believe you don't really need a big window or extra bulk of the larger body dots. The open type dot sights to me are out of the question.

[tuj]

+1 for the ultradots, particularly the matchdot model.

I found a dot added about 20 points to my NMC score when I was starting out. Obviously the longer you have been shooting for, the less it will make a difference.

[Rover]

A lot of guys love the Ultra Dot. Mine has already been replaced once and the dot isn't really clean.

I'm not so thrilled.

[jackh]

Rover
I have perhaps a dozen UD units. 5 1" 4 dot, 5 regular 1", and 2 30mm units. The 4 dot all have real nice dots. Can't say the same for single dots.

[Jerry Keefer]

People say the Aimpoint Micro is top of the line sight. It may be, but I have to have a full length tube. The open type dot sights to me are out of the question.

I agree with Jack..The "flat screens" as I call them, are almost useless for bullseye. Fred Totts and I have been experimenting with add on accessories, extension adapters/filters for the Micro.. Fred also offers a much stronger base for the Micro that eliminates the bolt break issues. As Jack indicates, the tube extensions are required for the human eye to properly align the optic. One major draw back to the Micro is cost.. They are not cheap, but some diligent searching can save some money..
Some prototype pics are posted on the Bullseye Forum.
I may try to post some here later.

Jerry

[prohjac]

Ok,

I'll stick with my BSA and try some more dry fire practice. Save my pennies for a Walther GSP or Pardini(which will start another debate).

Thanks for the info guys.

[Orion]

If you can't shoot iron sights

Everybody CAN shoot iron sights. It's a matter of how much one wishes to apply oneself.

I found that switching over to an Ultra Dot my score went up 30 or so points in a few weeks of practice. Practice also got easier.

However since then, I purchased a Hammerli 208 and will not be using a red dot.

Keep in mind if you think eating fried chicken and counting backwards from 127 prior to every match will improve your shooting then by all means do so.

[NDbullseye]

Are you noticing any parallax issues?? If so then switch to a Ultra dot if not stay with what u got. If you get a slide mounted 45 then an Ultra dot is about the only way to go for it to hold up other than an aimpoint.

[BenEnglishTX]

Lots of great info in this thread. Thanks so much to everyone for contributing. I've learned things and that's always a good thing.

...the dot isn't really clean.

+1 in my experience.

Standard disclaimer: I'm not a formal competitor, just a hobbyist, and not a very good shot, to boot. Thus, while I'm willing to toss in a couple of data points, I believe you should know how to weight them.

I have a real love-hate relationship with red dots.

I've tried a couple of Ultra Dots and bought one for myself. I found that the dots were not clear. They appeared to be a bunch of little dots surrounded by lens flare or radiating streaks. Turning down the brightness helped eliminate the streaks but I never saw a dot. I saw a bunch of dots when I looked at the dot.

Now, of course, I've been told you don't look at the dot. You look through the tube, at the target, and the dot just magically appears over the target. That doesn't work for me when using an Ultra Dot. When I focus on the dot and know it's over the bull then switch focus to the target, the dot *completely* disappears. I just get a mild red fog that appears somewhere between me and the target.

I gave up on the Ultra Dot.

I was given a Bushnell HoloSight so I've experimented with it. Pictured is a group I shot about an hour ago. (I said I wasn't a good shot, remember.) I ran out of downward adjustment on the sight and couldn't center the group any lower. The target shows one magazine (13 rounds) fired slowly, one-handed, at 25 yards.

It was hard work to use that sight. I never saw a dot, just a close grouping of small dots, lines, and geometric shapes so close together that they could be used as an aiming point...sort of. It actually looked worse than the Ultra Dot in that respect. It had the streaking, too, but I turned it down enough to minimize that problem.

I took the pistol into the attached gun shop where they sell mostly tacticool stuff and, thus, have lots of experience with red dots like the HoloSight. I got the guy who everybody in the shop agreed had the most experience with red dots to look through it at various settings. Once it was turned down a bit from the brightest setting, he said that when he looked through it, he saw a dot. I don't. I see a bunch of little shapes close together.

It was very hard to use this sight on targets but, unlike the Ultra Dot, the red "dot" didn't disappear when I focused on the target. The pictured target is better than I normally shoot with irons but it was a whole lot more work to achieve.

When I got home, I took a couple of pictures through the sight. Clearly, you're not supposed to focus on the rear face of the sight. Focusing at that distance, the camera records a big red blob. My eye sees a much smaller blob but one that is still pretty useless.

I set the focus of the camera lens to about 10-15 yards and took another shot. Everything in the picture is blurry but at least now the dot looks sort of like what I assume it should look like.

(My apologies for the off-center dots. It proved surprisingly difficult to hold the camera in one hand and the dot sighted pistol in the other and get good alignment.)

Clearly, I have eye problems since what I see and what the camera sees are so completely different. I also have an understanding eye doctor who has invited me to bring all these problems to her the next time we meet in a few months.

Maybe I'll be able to contribute more after that. Just my experiences, FWIW.

[k9jri]

[/quote]

Clearly, I have eye problems since what I see and what the camera sees are so completely different. I also have an understanding eye doctor who has invited me to bring all these problems to her the next time we meet in a few months.

Maybe I'll be able to contribute more after that. Just my experiences, FWIW.[/quote]


The fuzzies or flares around the dot, in my case, were early signs of developing cataracts. These are the same as the flares around traffic lights and tail lights in the evening. The lower the ambient light the wider your pupil opens and then includes more of the cataract that is developing at the edge of your lens. That what I was told :)

Mike

[matchguy]

Standard disclaimer: I'm not a formal competitor, just a hobbyist, and not a very good shot, to boot. Thus, while I'm willing to toss in a couple of data points, I believe you should know how to weight them.

Though you may not be the top shot at some matches, 25yd one handed most in the black, you're better than most non-competition quality people you'll see at the range.

[BenEnglishTX]

The fuzzies or flares around the dot, in my case, were early signs of developing cataracts.

I had a full eye exam a couple of months ago. The doc said I checked out just fine and didn't mention cataracts. However, it's entirely possible that what she expected me to understand is that I "Check out just fine, considering age", something entirely different that might include the beginning of cataracts. I'll specifically query her on the subject when we next meet. One thing, though - I don't get flares or ghosting or streaks around traffic lights, headlights, taillights, or any other lights that I see when driving at night. At least, if I do, it's not bad enough for me to notice.

Thanks for the heads-up.

[BenEnglishTX]

...25yd one handed most in the black, you're better than most non-competition quality people you'll see at the range.

Thank you; you're very kind.

For me, that's better than average and I feel like I was having a good day. The accuracy wasn't as impressive to me as the fact that I did it with a Glock. :-) That particular .45 Glock is reasonably accurate, despite the fact that it handles with all the grace and comfort of a scrap of 2x4 framing lumber.

I practice at a fairly standard U.S. commercial indoor range where the focus is on self-defense and the mindset is completely different. The average patron isn't 100% able to stay on a 21"x24" target paper at much beyond 10 yards. They look at me like I'm insane for actually holding down the target carrier switch until the target is 25 yards away. For them, 5 rounds fired in 2 seconds that stay inside an 8-inch circle on a target 3 yards away is highly skilled shooting. Staying in the black at 25 is just wasting ammo at a distance where I should be using a rifle.

Understand, I mean no disrespect to those folks. Perhaps they are learning a lifesaving skill and, certainly, I know how much fun it can be to dump large amounts of ammo quickly into close targets.

Still, I'd happily pay $1000/year for membership in a private club with truly nice facilities where all the members shared my basic mindset. But that's going off-topic and has already been covered elsewhere on this board, so I'll stop there.

Thanks again for your kind words.