Training with an air pistol question

[sakurama]

So I'm just getting started in Bullseye and I picked up a couple of air pistols to train with in the garage. It helps with getting the process down but one thing I find confusing is the sites.

If you shoot with a dot on your bullseye gun (i do) should you be training with the same or similar on your air pistol? I have an IZH 46 (with dot) and a FWB 65 (open sights) and the experience is much different between them. Are you trying to mimic the entire experience as much as possible or is it a different but related experience like a form of cross training? Obviously I don't have the same space so already I'm limited to shooting 5m with a smaller target but should I be making the attempt to mimic my bullseye experience?

How do you use the air pistol to train?

G

[GOVTMODEL]

For me it's all about trigger control. Duplicating the perfect sight picture is far less important.

[Rover]

I kinda go with the above, but if you ever want to shoot Olmpic-style pistol (including air pistol) it's all open sights.

I find that it's much easier to shoot a dot than iron sights, so all my training is iron sights. With iron you focus on the sights, with Dot on the bull. This requires different glasses.

[sakurama]

Makes sense I guess. I just find iron to be much less precise but I suppose that's the inherent difficulty. I'd love to compete in air pistol as well but there doesn't seem to be any options here in the Pacific North Wet.

That leads to my next question then about iron sights: in Olympic or air pistol is the center hold or 6 o'clock hold used? I grew up with 6 o'clock but I've heard it's less precise.

[Rover]

I lived in both Portland and N of Seattle and there was plenty of action. I think there is an air pistol league at Wildlife Committee of Washington. Keep looking.

Yes, iron is tougher, but it is what it is. Six o'clock hold is used by everyone I know.

This might work for you:
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/Postals/OpenAirPistol.pdf

[NDbullseye]

irons are actually easier in that you don't see your wobble as much and are it is easier to get your shot off.

[Isabel1130]

irons are actually easier in that you don't see your wobble as much and are it is easier to get your shot off.

Yes, and no,

My opinion is that with irons,the indicators that you are behind the shot are harder to pick up on, so you end up over holding and don't start the trigger moving soon enough. It is a little easier to recognise triggering errors and call shots with a dot but to be good with both you need to practice with both,indoors and out so that you are totally comfortable with either sighting system during a match.

[Rover]

I was shooting tonight at our range. There was a guest shooter from the Portland area there, so I put the question to him.

He said to contact the Portland Rifle and Pistol Club; that they had lots of airgun activity.

Good luck!

[sakurama]

I was shooting tonight at our range. There was a guest shooter from the Portland area there, so I put the question to him.

He said to contact the Portland Rifle and Pistol Club; that they had lots of airgun activity.

Good luck!

That's funny because that's the club I belong to. Of course I have only been a memeber for a few weeks and I still don't know everyone but I got the sense that a couple of people did shoot air pistols but only for fun. I know the club has 10m marked for a few lanes and you're encouraged to shoot there so maybe I'll learn more about it next week when I shoot my first bullseye match.

Thanks for the advice. I'll start to shoot iron and I'll swap back to a 6 o'clock hold and see how that works. At this point pretty much any training is helpful to me.

G

[Isabel1130]

Im confused here Rover. Most Olympic shooters I know shoot either center hold or sub six. Six o clock is the worst of both worlds, and draws your eye to the target as you watch the black bob around on top of it.
If a shooter can see the black on black of the sights against the bull, I would stick with a center hold. If not, go all the way to sub six.

[Rover]

You're right, they mostly use a sub six hold, but he was choosing between the two options he offered.

Sakamura, use a sub-six hold.

[yana]

AP usually is less forgiving cause its action is slower.
Thats a good training.
I like recoiling pistols too. Not matchpistols, but plinkers. They're even more picky about hold etc,. They also have heavier triggers; good for my technique. ;)
Its always good to keep practicing, not with .22, than with air. Keep muscles etc upto strength as well.

[sakurama]

You're right, they mostly use a sub six hold, but he was choosing between the two options he offered.

Sakamura, use a sub-six hold.

Can you explain the difference between 6 o'clock and sub 6? I see that one is resting the site on the bottom of the black and sub 6 is leaving space between the lined up site and the black. How much space? This seems like it would make for difficult consistency or repeatability. Can you point me to some info?

Thanks!

[montster]

I asked the same question last year and was a bit frustrated by the answer. After doing sub 6 for several months the answers from last year make sense now.

You choose how much of a gap and don't worry about it too much. Over time you will settle on a sight picture that fits with your sight alignment. Kind of subconscious consistency that comes with practice.

Suggest starting with equal line of white around the top and sides. Then see where your practice takes you.

I ended up with about 2x the white space at the top of the posts vs the white space on the side. I really don't pay that much attention to it.

Just work with it and you will settle on what is comfortable.

I am very satisfied with results gained after a few months of working on sub six hold.

[Fred Mannis]

Sakamura, shooting at a blank target (no bull) with iron sights is excellent training, and you will find that you can shoot surprisingly small groups with no aiming point to distract you. You can also do this at home with dry firing.

There has been a great deal of discussion of this subject over the years; I suggest you do a search for 'sub six' in the Olympic Pistol forum.

[jackh]

As Fred says, blank target backs. Keep your eye glued to the front sight. After a bit, the rest of the sight picture will just come naturally. The Sub six area will seem like just a smaller blank target. I repeat keep your eye glued to the front sight.

Did I mention front sight?

[Rover]

There ya go! All perfectly correct.

The reason for all this is that the front sight seems to meld with the black when using a six o'clock hold. Also, you can't tell where you are when using a center hold if the light is not right. The sub-six gives the best sight definition.

[sakurama]

Okay, I tried it last night and got one of the better groups I've gotten with my FWB 65 but I think it's going to take some time. It feels very vague and imprecise so i find it ironic that it is the hold used for such precision shooting. Thanks for the tips - I'll look for more information on the hold and I'll keep practicing.

[Isabel1130]

Okay, I tried it last night and got one of the better groups I've gotten with my FWB 65 but I think it's going to take some time. It feels very vague and imprecise so i find it ironic that it is the hold used for such precision shooting. Thanks for the tips - I'll look for more information on the hold and I'll keep practicing.

It is one of those things that is counter intuitive. Remember that even though it looks like your hold is moving all over the target, it really isn't. What matters far more than what you see on the target is that your sights are aligned. Front to rear sight alignment and triggering errors create 90 percent of shooting errors. Your hold is what it is for as long as it is good. This is why most iron sights shooters rely on area aiming. They know that " precision" occurs in your sight alignment and your trigger pull, not with your hold.

http://www.pilkguns.com/c4.shtml

[Rover]

That's right!!!