Over holding

eyager · Post by **eyager** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:20 pm

I coach a teenage shooter who is very skilled and shows a great deal of promise but has hit a mental plateau and consistantly overholds. I am looking for drills and practice scenerios which may help her break this habit. Your thoughts and ideas are appreciated.

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:54 pm

Being an ex-overly stubborn teen shooter, I suspect that if he doesn't think there's a problem, he won't Want to change.

Anyway, I have traditionally been a fast shooter and finding myself over-holding lately. If I focus on good trigger work and stop focusing on "shooting good"/score, my shot process goes Much faster. Doesn't matter if I'm dry-firing or live firing and I frequently use it as a tool to get myself back into a normal routine (several dry-fire shots in a row, focused on trigger ~ even in the middle of a match). I'd say that using a RIKA/Scatt/Noptel unit may help, only maybe because I've found that even with intentional over-hold, my RIKA traces don't grow noticeably bigger. Meanwhile, if I'm thinking about something else, those traces go all over the place.

You could do timed shots where YOU call off the shot if your Jr won't (tap on the shoulder) and make him shoot 20 shots like that, starting over again if he shoots after the tap. Or do some finals training by making him call off and then fire in a 75 second window. Again, add pressure by requiring 10~20 correct processes in a row. The called-off shots Must be real attempts, not lazy and half-assed. Add other positive and/or negative incentive to help drive the experience home.

The real lesson is to know when to call off a shot. And you can have him track that with a simple + or - for if he felt the shot was held overly long. I suspect starting here would be the best bet, just to see if he thinks he's doing something wrong. Then move on to training to minimize it.

Good luck!

Pat McCoy · Post by **Pat McCoy** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:02 pm

Standing behind the shooter, and saying "stop" when they got to 8 seconds (eventually dropping the time to five seconds) worked with more than one "ex-overly stubborn teen shooters" I've coached.

Just a matter of retraining their sub-conscious that there were, indeed, tens in that first part of the hold.

Vincent · Post by **Vincent** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:10 am

I shoot 10m rifle and last weekend my coach watched me shoot a 10 shot series and even though my shots were mostly 10's he wanted me to concentrate on my timing as I lower the muzzle. He drew a line onto the back of a pistol target and had me tracing the line to the middle of the paper followed by a shot each time. Once I reach the middle of the paper I would have 2-3 seconds to shoot or to set the rifle down. Then I went back to shooting normal targets. This drill helped me with being more consistent with my approach to the shot and not overholding once I'm on target. I started using this drill at home when I dry fire and it's helped. My lines on the Rika are cleaner now and my scores are improving.
Regards,
Vinny

Freepistol · Post by **Freepistol** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:32 am

Vincent wrote:I shoot 10m rifle and last weekend my coach watched me shoot a 10 shot series and even though my shots were mostly 10's he wanted me to concentrate on my timing as I lower the muzzle. He drew a line onto the back of a pistol target and had me tracing the line to the middle of the paper followed by a shot each time. Once I reach the middle of the paper I would have 2-3 seconds to shoot or to set the rifle down. Then I went back to shooting normal targets. This drill helped me with being more consistent with my approach to the shot and not overholding once I'm on target. I started using this drill at home when I dry fire and it's helped. My lines on the Rika are cleaner now and my scores are improving.
Regards,
Vinny

Very good, Vinny!

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:54 am

The key is really to make him aware of holding on too long and getting him to shoot sooner. Scatt can show details but so can you with a stopwatch - I normally explain the reason why they need to shoot sooner and get them to just do it. Shooting at a blank card can help them stop worrying about score and just concentrate on the process.

Rob.

Vincent · Post by **Vincent** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:04 pm

A couple of areas in the shot process that I focus on are pre-aiming and breathing. I started pre-aiming by looking down the side of the barrel to make sure I'm oriented as the rifle and my position settles. Then when I lower my head I'm very close to my natural point of aim and minimal adjustment is needed. I tend to pause before my front aperture breaks the top ring of the target for one last breath. The breath I take is done using my stomach so I rarely disturb my sight picture. Then I continue lowering the sight. With practice these steps have helped me to develop a routine and sub-concious timer. Initially my coach would observe me and tell me to slow down during my "final approach". Not rushing onto the target helped me to spend less time on the target. After working on these areas leading up to the shot with my coach my over holding has decreased a lot. Hope this helps.

2650 Plus · Post by **2650 Plus** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:55 pm

Ask him to follow Brian Zins Advice and technique. Start the trigger pressure before he reaches the aiming area and never let the increase slow down or stop until the shot is fired. Apply steadily increasing is the positive way of stating the description of this method of trigger control. If your shooter is still holding longer ask him to apply some small amount of pressure to the trigger and begin his steadily increasing pressure a bit sooner in his shot sequence. The first time he tries this and really comits to it he may fire a shot over the target. This is the time to reinforce the insistance that he is doing what you have suggested.and that it will really solve the problem. Good Shooting Bill Horton

westerngriz · Post by **westerngriz** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:33 am

Is he actually overholding, or does it just look like he is overholding?
I tend to shoot very slowly, but when I perform my mental program consistently I break the shots in less than 10 seconds. BUT my mental program is long and involves looking down the sights for awhile(or just to the side) so it LOOKS like I am holding for a long time but I am not, and I am breathing. Once I begin my hold, the shot is gone quickly.
Matt

BenEnglishTX · Post by **BenEnglishTX** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:05 am

Pat McCoy wrote:..."stop" when they got to 8 seconds (eventually dropping the time to five seconds)...

Normally, I hold too long. I know it's a problem. My cure has been to abort, put the pistol down, and start over.

I read this thread then went to the range yesterday afternoon. While I didn't explicitly count seconds, I have a feel (having been a musician in my early days) for how long a bar lasts in a waltz. I sort of put my head in a "music feel" mode by remembering some old waltzes and playing them through in my head as I drove to the range. When I got there, I ran three targets, 25 rounds apiece, starting my trigger pressure earlier and more consciously so that each shot broke in not much more than 4 seconds.

It sure felt like I was shooting too fast but the groups on paper were roughly as small as I've ever shot and the effort required was distinctly less. I was both mentally and physically fresher after those 75 shots than I normally am after 50.

Live and learn. Thanks to all for the help.

Bowman26 · Post by **Bowman26** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:31 pm

Being able to put the rifle down and reset and knowing when to is something you have to practice just like everything else. If you do not incorporate that into practice as well odds are you are going to take bad shots and not be mentally aware enough that something is wrong and you need to start over. Sometimes these little things can be overcome and shots can be made which only gives the shooter more instinct to hang on to long thinking they can make it anyway when they should reset.

Bo

Pat McCoy · Post by **Pat McCoy** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:42 pm

BenEnglisTx,

Great adaptation of a skill from another area to your shooting!

Continuing to build the myelin sheath around the nerves used for timing for both activities.

I've just tried to build a feel for the proper timing from scratch, but will use your idea with musicians in the future.

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:41 am

Great post Ben !