Hey,
I am looking to shoot in college and have looked at UT Martin and Murray State. Right now, those are the only twon in my price range and that i liked. I think that Murray state is a perfect fit for me, but when I spoke to the coach yesterday, he told me that I would need to be shooting 585 or better in air rifle and 570 or better in smallbore. Right now I am shooting a 570 in air, but have never really shot smallbore before. I am pretty confident that I can get my air rifle scores up, but I still need to buy a smallbore rifle.
I am currently looking to buy a smallbore rifle and was wondering what your opinions were on a couple. The air rifle that I shoot right now is the Walther LG300XT Protouch and the first rifle that I was looking at is the Walther KK300. I am also looking at the Anschutz 1907 in both a wood stock and an aluminum stock and the FWB 2700. Any and all opinions are welcomed! Just to let you guys know, I am a left handed shooter and a senior.
Thanks!
College Help!
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
One other piece of info that might be relevant, how big are you? Say you are 6'0" and 200 pounds you would most likely want a "heavy" barrel (typical on the 1913) on the flip side, if you are 5'4" and 120 pounds then a "standard" barrel (typical of the 1907) would likely be a better choice.
Good Luck with the college selection.
'Dude
Good Luck with the college selection.
'Dude
Hey 'Fury ..
Alan is a great coach and you can take his comments to be inline with almost every NCAA coach. Some don't mind if you don't have smallbore experience, but most want to see it.
Remember when he says 585 in air, he means 60 shot standing ... not 3-P.
Check out their website & match scores and you'll see that is right in line with what his kids are shooting now.
In terms of the SB rifle ... While I like the 1907 action/bbl, I really don't like the stock all that much .... I prefer my shooters to get something like a 1912/1913 in wood ... especially starting out. Call Neal Stepp at International Shooters Service and chat with him on what he may have used... Also Mac Tilton may have something at MT Guns.
If you look at a metal stocked rifle add about $500-$700 to the price.
Also, find out where your International JO Qualifiers are and shoot in them ... for you, the JO's shoot the events that the collegiates use ... 60 shot air & 3x20 SBR. USA Shooting is behind the 8-ball in posting the JO host list, so if you want it, PM me and I'll email direct to you. (I'm guessing they'll have it out next week)
Alan is a great coach and you can take his comments to be inline with almost every NCAA coach. Some don't mind if you don't have smallbore experience, but most want to see it.
Remember when he says 585 in air, he means 60 shot standing ... not 3-P.
Check out their website & match scores and you'll see that is right in line with what his kids are shooting now.
In terms of the SB rifle ... While I like the 1907 action/bbl, I really don't like the stock all that much .... I prefer my shooters to get something like a 1912/1913 in wood ... especially starting out. Call Neal Stepp at International Shooters Service and chat with him on what he may have used... Also Mac Tilton may have something at MT Guns.
If you look at a metal stocked rifle add about $500-$700 to the price.
Also, find out where your International JO Qualifiers are and shoot in them ... for you, the JO's shoot the events that the collegiates use ... 60 shot air & 3x20 SBR. USA Shooting is behind the 8-ball in posting the JO host list, so if you want it, PM me and I'll email direct to you. (I'm guessing they'll have it out next week)
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
'fury
At 180 pounds you are big enough to handle a 1913, the question is do you want that much weight. My rule of thumb is you absolutely never want the rifle to weigh more than 10% of the shooters weight and more ideally not more than 7%. A "dressed" 1913 with regular length barrel is ususally around 13 pounds a 1912 often considered to be a 1913 stock with the lighter 1907 barrel in it will be around 11.5 pounds.
If you are going to a top shooting school with good coaching then the 1913 style stock (regardless of barrel weight) is the way to go. If you go someplace where they shoot but it is not a well developed program with skilled coaching the the 1907 stock, while it has some limitations, can be easier to work with as there are fewer adjustments to fret about.
Good Luck with getting the school of your choice!!!
'Dude
At 180 pounds you are big enough to handle a 1913, the question is do you want that much weight. My rule of thumb is you absolutely never want the rifle to weigh more than 10% of the shooters weight and more ideally not more than 7%. A "dressed" 1913 with regular length barrel is ususally around 13 pounds a 1912 often considered to be a 1913 stock with the lighter 1907 barrel in it will be around 11.5 pounds.
If you are going to a top shooting school with good coaching then the 1913 style stock (regardless of barrel weight) is the way to go. If you go someplace where they shoot but it is not a well developed program with skilled coaching the the 1907 stock, while it has some limitations, can be easier to work with as there are fewer adjustments to fret about.
Good Luck with getting the school of your choice!!!
'Dude
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
There is no really compelling reason to buy a Walther smallbore rifle just because you have a Walther Air Rifle. Across the big three most accessories are pretty universal in terms of fitting them all. Then of course for Air Rifle you are limited as to what you can attach to the rifle anyhow.
Having said that every company has their idea of what the average hand or body is built like and some of those ideas are going to be closer to your body than others.
Walter, Anschutz and Feinwerkbau all make excellent rifles. If you can, get yourself to someplace where you can pick each one up and work with the adjustments. You will likely find that one just feels better and makes more sense to you. That is the one you should buy.
If you have shot a KK300 some and really like it, then go for it. This is October and I am guessing college does not start until next August for you so you have a little time to shop.
Good Luck
'Dude
Having said that every company has their idea of what the average hand or body is built like and some of those ideas are going to be closer to your body than others.
Walter, Anschutz and Feinwerkbau all make excellent rifles. If you can, get yourself to someplace where you can pick each one up and work with the adjustments. You will likely find that one just feels better and makes more sense to you. That is the one you should buy.
If you have shot a KK300 some and really like it, then go for it. This is October and I am guessing college does not start until next August for you so you have a little time to shop.
Good Luck
'Dude
'Fury ...
Again, I'd recommend calling Neal Stepp or Mac Tilton. (If you call Neal, make sure you have some time to chat)
Since you are starting out in SBR, the coach is probably looking for you to make some kind of commitment in that area. Having an air rifle and sbr rifle in hand when you walk in will mean the coach does not have to look at setting you up to get shooting. Remember, collegiate rifle ain't football or basketball, their budgets are really pretty tight.
If you get a good used rifle (those guys won't steer you wrong) and don't beat the heck out of it, you should be able to sell it at about the same price you pay for it if/when you go for a more "advanced" model.
Again, I like the 1912 & 1913, but even a 1907 will get you started. One of my younger shooters just picked up a used rifle from Neal & it looks brand new, and shoots awesome.
Again, I'd recommend calling Neal Stepp or Mac Tilton. (If you call Neal, make sure you have some time to chat)
Since you are starting out in SBR, the coach is probably looking for you to make some kind of commitment in that area. Having an air rifle and sbr rifle in hand when you walk in will mean the coach does not have to look at setting you up to get shooting. Remember, collegiate rifle ain't football or basketball, their budgets are really pretty tight.
If you get a good used rifle (those guys won't steer you wrong) and don't beat the heck out of it, you should be able to sell it at about the same price you pay for it if/when you go for a more "advanced" model.
Again, I like the 1912 & 1913, but even a 1907 will get you started. One of my younger shooters just picked up a used rifle from Neal & it looks brand new, and shoots awesome.
'Fury
To add to some of the things mentioned by jhmartin. In the US Anschutz is the dominant target rifle. This is aside from is it the best built, most accurate, most reliable any discussions on those topics. In the US most shooters own and understand Anschutz rifles.
As a result if you have some kind of an issue it will be easier finding help to resolve that issue. Likewise, should you decide to sell, an Anschutz is probably easier to sell than a Walther or FWB. I am just guessing on that last part.
Then again, to put this in car terms, if you really like the looks or feel of the KK300 then it might be like telling a Camaro lover they have to drive a Mustang or vice versa, the other brand just won't do.
At this point the best advice has been given, talk to Neal or Mac.
Cheers,
'Dude
To add to some of the things mentioned by jhmartin. In the US Anschutz is the dominant target rifle. This is aside from is it the best built, most accurate, most reliable any discussions on those topics. In the US most shooters own and understand Anschutz rifles.
As a result if you have some kind of an issue it will be easier finding help to resolve that issue. Likewise, should you decide to sell, an Anschutz is probably easier to sell than a Walther or FWB. I am just guessing on that last part.
Then again, to put this in car terms, if you really like the looks or feel of the KK300 then it might be like telling a Camaro lover they have to drive a Mustang or vice versa, the other brand just won't do.
At this point the best advice has been given, talk to Neal or Mac.
Cheers,
'Dude
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Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
'Fury:
Sounds like you are getting some good information about rifles, but no one has touched on schools yet. I went through this with one of my sons who had no air experience, but had 3P experience. He was shooting up to 560 in smallbore and had plateau-ed (improvement wasn't so quick). He was shooting 4 days a week and had been shooting that much for the year proceeding his freshman year. At 560, he was on the B team, the developmental group that hopes to improve well enough that they can shoot the matches on behalf of the team. No one shooting less than 580 could expect any scholarship money, especially if they were male - ladies dominate the collegiate side of things because of Title IX which was meant to balance out athletic scholarships for men and women - but only moves the equation left or right depending on the sport. Not fair...
Anyways, to improve, he was going to have to make some special commitments to work on his scores. In the end he realized it was more than he thought it was going to be and dropped off the team. By the way, I now shoot his old 1913, but I digress. The important lesson is to think and understand how devoted you are going to be to shooting as your sport as well as your studies, and more importantly, balancing social activities. Really good collegiate shooters are rarely party people. I have seen some incredibly good collegiate shooters drop off the rolls simply because they were getting stressed out from just too much balancing.
Another issue is school selection. Price is important - I know since I have three kids in college all at the same time right now. However, if you consider your scores and experience and if are going to be enough to step into a match role at a school with a well-known and very successful shooting team, you may want to widen your school selections and look at other teams and their needs. I know of one specific school who came to me to see if I could talk my son in re-joining his old team due to member attrition (sickness, busy-ness, etc.). There are many other teams out there to consider - ask questions! A lot of folks on this forum shoot for or know people who shoot for different collegiate teams.
Anyhow, just some thoughts for you and your folks to think about. Good luck!
Sounds like you are getting some good information about rifles, but no one has touched on schools yet. I went through this with one of my sons who had no air experience, but had 3P experience. He was shooting up to 560 in smallbore and had plateau-ed (improvement wasn't so quick). He was shooting 4 days a week and had been shooting that much for the year proceeding his freshman year. At 560, he was on the B team, the developmental group that hopes to improve well enough that they can shoot the matches on behalf of the team. No one shooting less than 580 could expect any scholarship money, especially if they were male - ladies dominate the collegiate side of things because of Title IX which was meant to balance out athletic scholarships for men and women - but only moves the equation left or right depending on the sport. Not fair...
Anyways, to improve, he was going to have to make some special commitments to work on his scores. In the end he realized it was more than he thought it was going to be and dropped off the team. By the way, I now shoot his old 1913, but I digress. The important lesson is to think and understand how devoted you are going to be to shooting as your sport as well as your studies, and more importantly, balancing social activities. Really good collegiate shooters are rarely party people. I have seen some incredibly good collegiate shooters drop off the rolls simply because they were getting stressed out from just too much balancing.
Another issue is school selection. Price is important - I know since I have three kids in college all at the same time right now. However, if you consider your scores and experience and if are going to be enough to step into a match role at a school with a well-known and very successful shooting team, you may want to widen your school selections and look at other teams and their needs. I know of one specific school who came to me to see if I could talk my son in re-joining his old team due to member attrition (sickness, busy-ness, etc.). There are many other teams out there to consider - ask questions! A lot of folks on this forum shoot for or know people who shoot for different collegiate teams.
Anyhow, just some thoughts for you and your folks to think about. Good luck!
Last edited by Telecomtodd on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Telecomtodd's message is extraordinarily wise, and all young shooters should read it twice. You are going to college to learn, not to shoot. And there is much to learn - Not just in your major field of study, but about yourself. Shooting is a great sport, and having access to the support structure of a team or club can help a freshman shooter in many ways. So remember to check out all those club schools out there. I have a personnal fondness for the University of Wisconsin at Oshkosh . . .
Ditto on TelecomTodd's message.
I have one daughter in college and while she had been looked at by numerous schools, she finally determined that getting her education was far more important than shooting. Decided to go to a state school where she had great scholarships. Overall the coach (dad) was a bit bummed, but the college financier (also dad) was happy.
I think what finally got her attention was that on one school visit, the coach sat her down and explained to her that her choice of degree and shooting would most probably require 5-6 years of school and that he would most probably redshirt her for a year so that she could make sure she completed her studies with good grades.
You know, your shooting career is not necessarily over when you hit college. My daughter shot in the NRA Intercollegiate Club sectional representing her school (not an NCAA team school), and was invited to the Intercollegiate Club Championships in Charleston last year in both air & smallbore. While she did not shoot as high of scores as she had been before she started college, that was expected as she only practiced when she came home for some weekends. She came out of that with some medals, a new rifle, and some very fond memories.
Thanks to TelecomTodd for the sage advice and reminder
I have one daughter in college and while she had been looked at by numerous schools, she finally determined that getting her education was far more important than shooting. Decided to go to a state school where she had great scholarships. Overall the coach (dad) was a bit bummed, but the college financier (also dad) was happy.
I think what finally got her attention was that on one school visit, the coach sat her down and explained to her that her choice of degree and shooting would most probably require 5-6 years of school and that he would most probably redshirt her for a year so that she could make sure she completed her studies with good grades.
You know, your shooting career is not necessarily over when you hit college. My daughter shot in the NRA Intercollegiate Club sectional representing her school (not an NCAA team school), and was invited to the Intercollegiate Club Championships in Charleston last year in both air & smallbore. While she did not shoot as high of scores as she had been before she started college, that was expected as she only practiced when she came home for some weekends. She came out of that with some medals, a new rifle, and some very fond memories.
Thanks to TelecomTodd for the sage advice and reminder
I agree with justadude. Go out and find various rifles to hold and shoot. Eventually you will find the right one for you because it will be comfortable to hold and you will like its balance and "feel." Anschutz, Walther and Feinwerkbau as well as others can all shoot "10s."
As far as college is concerned, unless you are one of the top junior shooters in the nation, scholarships for riflery is relatively small, if any. Most of your financial aid will come from your academic achievements and/or financial need.
Compose a resume of yourself. Include personal information, school information, achievements, extracurricular activities and your shooting background and history. Send the resume to the coaches of the schools you are interested in and see if you get a response. Include Division 2 schools - they have very good programs, too.
Best wishes.
As far as college is concerned, unless you are one of the top junior shooters in the nation, scholarships for riflery is relatively small, if any. Most of your financial aid will come from your academic achievements and/or financial need.
Compose a resume of yourself. Include personal information, school information, achievements, extracurricular activities and your shooting background and history. Send the resume to the coaches of the schools you are interested in and see if you get a response. Include Division 2 schools - they have very good programs, too.
Best wishes.
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Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
One last point - don't assume a college will tell you about scholarships. Unless you were a top 3P shooter at Camp Perry, they generally won't go out of their way tell you. One college coaching staffer explained to me that he had limited dollars to offer, but unless a shooter asked about it and was eager to work hard for it, nothing was mentioned.
If you're a 570-580 shooter and practicing 4-5 days a week, it's worth asking a school about scholarship money, even if it's just a partial scholarship. If you are shooting 585-590, they have already found your home address and you know all about it already! By the way, it's worth mentioning you are willing to take a partial - if a coach can give two shooters a half scholarship, more shooters benefit. It may not pay all of the bills, but a good student should have other sources of funding anyways.
Coaches have difficult jobs because of what they can and can't tell you (and when) due to NCAA rules. Don't be put off if a coach says, "hey, I can't talk to you right now" or "that's something we can't talk about". It's just their way out of saying "if I wanna keep being an NCAA coach, I can't open my mouth right now". Don't take it personally.
Although I'm a Level 2 Coach, I have no formal ties to any NCAA sactioned school - so I can talk about this stuff! My ties are limited to paying tuition for three of my kids who are still in school; one Senior and two Juniors. At least one wants to go to grad school, so there's 6 or 7 years to go. And what's funny is that she's the best shooter of the family - except that her school doesn't even have a club team.
Good shooting - Mr. E
If you're a 570-580 shooter and practicing 4-5 days a week, it's worth asking a school about scholarship money, even if it's just a partial scholarship. If you are shooting 585-590, they have already found your home address and you know all about it already! By the way, it's worth mentioning you are willing to take a partial - if a coach can give two shooters a half scholarship, more shooters benefit. It may not pay all of the bills, but a good student should have other sources of funding anyways.
Coaches have difficult jobs because of what they can and can't tell you (and when) due to NCAA rules. Don't be put off if a coach says, "hey, I can't talk to you right now" or "that's something we can't talk about". It's just their way out of saying "if I wanna keep being an NCAA coach, I can't open my mouth right now". Don't take it personally.
Although I'm a Level 2 Coach, I have no formal ties to any NCAA sactioned school - so I can talk about this stuff! My ties are limited to paying tuition for three of my kids who are still in school; one Senior and two Juniors. At least one wants to go to grad school, so there's 6 or 7 years to go. And what's funny is that she's the best shooter of the family - except that her school doesn't even have a club team.
Good shooting - Mr. E
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
Remember that to shoot in the Intercollegiate club sectionals, she just has to attend the school full time .... she can shoot at the intercollegiate club nationals as an individual representing a school.Telecomtodd wrote:And what's funny is that she's the best shooter of the family - except that her school doesn't even have a club team.
That's what my daughter did last year.
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
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silentfury214
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:07 am
- Location: Tennessee
'fury
Congratulations on your new equipment and wishes for the best of success as you get settled in with it.
Following the thread some there has been a discussion regarding NCAA and club programs. It is generally understood that NCAA shooting schools do put some amount of money into their shooting programs but even there funding and access to coaching can vary significantly from the top tier schools to the lower tier schools.
With club programs you need to be even more careful with regard to what you want out of collegiate shooting and what the club offers. As has been noted, a full time undergraduate student from a school with no team or club is welcome to shoot in the intercollegiate sectionals in the club category but clearly you are on your own for equipment, supplies, coaching and range time. There are a few club schools out there that can provide you limited amounts of those four general needs but quantity and quality can vary greatly. There are some club programs with decent equipment and capapble coaches and there are other programs where it is more of a social club that happens to revolve around getting together and shooting rifles, equipment can be aging, coaching very basic and opportunities for shoulder to shoulder competition limited to non existent. The warning here, if you choose to look at a school with a club program check it out very carefully, probably more carefully than an NCAA program to insure that it is what you want.
Good Luck,
'Dude
Congratulations on your new equipment and wishes for the best of success as you get settled in with it.
Following the thread some there has been a discussion regarding NCAA and club programs. It is generally understood that NCAA shooting schools do put some amount of money into their shooting programs but even there funding and access to coaching can vary significantly from the top tier schools to the lower tier schools.
With club programs you need to be even more careful with regard to what you want out of collegiate shooting and what the club offers. As has been noted, a full time undergraduate student from a school with no team or club is welcome to shoot in the intercollegiate sectionals in the club category but clearly you are on your own for equipment, supplies, coaching and range time. There are a few club schools out there that can provide you limited amounts of those four general needs but quantity and quality can vary greatly. There are some club programs with decent equipment and capapble coaches and there are other programs where it is more of a social club that happens to revolve around getting together and shooting rifles, equipment can be aging, coaching very basic and opportunities for shoulder to shoulder competition limited to non existent. The warning here, if you choose to look at a school with a club program check it out very carefully, probably more carefully than an NCAA program to insure that it is what you want.
Good Luck,
'Dude