.32 bullets - swaged vs. cast

[IPshooter]

I don't shoot BE, but I'm betting some folks here have already explored this question. Can you get good results with factory .32 S&W Long barrels in the Euro pistols using hard cast wadcutter bullets?

My experience is that a swaged HBWC bullet, larger than the bore diameter by .001, will work well. However, all of these bullets are expensive. I've been told by folks, with far more reloading experience than me, that hard cast bullets will work if sized .0005 over bore diameter.

Has anyone fully explored this approach and what were your results? Was the bullet used a DEWC or some other type?

Keep in mind that I am not talking about changing out the barrel. The question is assuming the factory barrel is retained.

If this method works and the bullet cost is lower, that would be great.

TIA

Stan

[Rover]

Hard cast is still soft. You can go 1 or 2 thousands over with no problem. You have to know what the bore REALLY is, though.

[mld]

I haven't done this for years, please refresh my memory: What is the best way to determine an accurate bore diameter? A soft lead bullet and a micrometer?

Murray

[john bickar]

Good results at 25m, or at 50 yards?

They're different animals.

[David M]

Cast a pure lead wad cutter, unsized or if needed squash a little in a vice to increase the diameter.
Drive it through the barrel, prefered from the breach end to crown.
Use either a brass rod or hardwood dowel to drive down the barrel.
DO NOT USE A STEEL ROD.
Measure the bullet with a micrometer across the lands.
Cast and lube size between 1/2 to 1 1/2 thou bigger.

[oldcaster]

IP Shooter, Would you like to try some Saeco #323 cast and some 80 grain Magma. I just molded up about a 1000 of the saeco's and gave them to a friend because my star has only one lube hole. I haven't tried them yet either but others have told me they were the best molded they have shot to date. None of the others liked the 80 grain bullets as much but my results were at least OK. The magma mold is not the same quality and it sometimes flashes near the base. I haven't tried either of these cast bullets since I caught on how necessary it is to trim the brass to length and started shooting the H&N HBWC's. I'm with you though on the price of those things. Maybe 50 yards only or maybe eventually I'll get something cast to shoot. I am going to have Lee make me a case sizer that is bigger as Dave Wilson suggested and I think I will also get a taper crimp die as he suggested to see if it will make the trimming of brass unnecessary. As long as the pistol still functions I think it might be an answer.

[IPshooter]

Good results at 25m, or at 50 yards?

They're different animals.

Hi John,

Right now, my focus is strictly at 25m. I suppose I might get into BE and 50 yds one day, but that's not likely. However, you've probably guessed already that if I can find a one-hole group at 25m I'll be tempted to see what it does at 50 yds.

Stan

[IPshooter]

IP Shooter, Would you like to try some Saeco #323 cast and some 80 grain Magma. I just molded up about a 1000 of the saeco's and gave them to a friend because my star has only one lube hole. I haven't tried them yet either but others have told me they were the best molded they have shot to date. None of the others liked the 80 grain bullets as much but my results were at least OK. The magma mold is not the same quality and it sometimes flashes near the base. I haven't tried either of these cast bullets since I caught on how necessary it is to trim the brass to length and started shooting the H&N HBWC's. I'm with you though on the price of those things. Maybe 50 yards only or maybe eventually I'll get something cast to shoot. I am going to have Lee make me a case sizer that is bigger as Dave Wilson suggested and I think I will also get a taper crimp die as he suggested to see if it will make the trimming of brass unnecessary. As long as the pistol still functions I think it might be an answer.

Oldcaster,

Yes, I would be interested in trying them.

Stan

[fc60]

Greetings,

Attached is a scan of a target fired at 25 Yards. Barrel is from a Haemmerli SP-20 mounted in a rest. The bullets are cast by me.

The barrel groove diameter measures 0.3135"

The bullet is the Hensley and Gibbs #66BB ~ 98 grains.

Some of my best groups have been with cast bullets. Sadly, I have not found the proper combination of Lead hardness and bullet grease to prevent Lead fouling in the barrel throat.

Cheers,

Dave Wilson

[Rover]

A delight to the eye!

[oldcaster]

Stan, First let's find out what you need or want. Do you want them soft or hard or do you want some of each to try everything. I have some of the Saeco's already cast that are BHN about 10. I can't personnaly lube them at this time because as I said my die has only one hole. I can however send you some as soon as I get my half back from my friend. I do have hard or soft 80 grain magma that are already lubed and can send you as many as you need . I also can make some of each hard or soft and send them unlubed.
Just let me know what you want to try and if you don't live close to St. Louis send me your address. My Email: MrWmLau@gmail.com. Don't worry about money because the amount is too petty to be concerned with. Goes for you too Mr. Wilson if you want to try anything.-- Bill --
[/url]

[IPshooter]

Stan, First let's find out what you need or want. Do you want them soft or hard or do you want some of each to try everything. I have some of the Saeco's already cast that are BHN about 10. I can't personnaly lube them at this time because as I said my die has only one hole. I can however send you some as soon as I get my half back from my friend. I do have hard or soft 80 grain magma that are already lubed and can send you as many as you need . I also can make some of each hard or soft and send them unlubed.
Just let me know what you want to try and if you don't live close to St. Louis send me your address. My Email: MrWmLau@gmail.com. Don't worry about money because the amount is too petty to be concerned with. Goes for you too Mr. Wilson if you want to try anything.-- Bill --
[/url]

Bill,

I'm sending you an e-mail now.

Thanks!

Stan

[IPshooter]

Some of my best groups have been with cast bullets. Sadly, I have not found the proper combination of Lead hardness and bullet grease to prevent Lead fouling in the barrel throat.

Cheers,

Dave Wilson

Dave,

Thanks very much for the info.

I used a 1911 .45 ACP for many years (with hard cast SWC bullets) and never had to fight the leading issue. Have you been able to determine whether the configuration of the throat is different in a typical .45 ACP barrel as compared to a typical European .32 barrel?

It would seem that there ought to be some sort of explanation for this problem. If so, maybe that will lead to a solution.

Stan

[PFribley]

Dave Wilson in the 32 guru. Pay attention to what he says. He also makes world class custom barrels for if really want to get seriuos about shooting your 32!!!

[fc60]

Greetings,

Since Speer changed their lube formula their 32 HBWC bullets have considerably less fouling. Since 32 bullets are a pain to cast well I have continued to reload the Speer bullets. I try to watch for sales and buy them 10.000 at a time to save money.

I do have an experiment I will be conducting in the future. I hope to duplicate the well made H&N bullet by the following plan.

1) Cast a cylindrical bullet with two grease grooves.

2) Size the bullet and fill the grooves with grease.

3) Swage the bullet to size and shape with a HBWC punch.

If I am successful, I will post some results.

By the way, I am not a GURU. Just someone that has had many years of experience tinkering with these little rascals. Since I have a small machine shop, I can conduct a variety of experiments that most shooters would not be able to afford. I do share my knowledge, as do others, to promote this fine sport.

Cheers,

Dave

[Levergun59]

First, you have to have a good supply of foundry bullet lead. Try Bill Ferguson, theantimonyman.com. The best bullets are poured and overpoured with a Rowell ladle. I like the 2# version, also from Bill. Get rid of any lead pot with a venturi needle. It produces air pockets in the mold and huge weight variences. You will need a plumbers pot and a propane burner to use that ladle. The other reason to avoid a lead pot is that it runs on a thermostat which, by it's nature runs an uneven temperature range for the pour. Beveled edges on bullets detract from accuracy, but run well in a high speed loader like a Camdex. I also like the H@G wadcutters. They are time tested accurate. Ideally you want your hardcast bullet .0001 over bore diameter and sized no more than .0001 so as not to deform the bullet. In a perfect world the bullets need no resizing but are just lubed. Ladle casting is slower than pot casting but the weight differences approach that of Sierra jacketed bullets. This system produces quality bullets, not target fodder.
Sorry for the rambling
Chris

[oldcaster]

Dave, When (if ever) I get that group buy Mihec hollow base mold, I'll have to send you some of them to try. -- Bill --

[fc60]

Greetings,

Yesterday I tried making some HBWC with the grease grooves machined in.

What I did....

1) Cut alloyed Lead wire into slugs.
2) Swaged the slugs to 101 grains, 0.312" diameter
3) Machined two grease grooves on my lathe.
4) Greased item #3 with NRA Lube in a 0.3115" greaser die.
5) Swaged item #4 into a 0.312" HBWC with a button nose.

Observations....

NRA lube is too fluid. It gums up the swaging dies.

The finished bullet looks promising and I will test it one weekend against Speer and H&N bullets at 50 yards. If the groups look promising, I will try again with a harder lube that requires heat in the greaser.

Cheers,

Dave Wilson

[jbshooter]

What size barrel are you going to put the .312 bullets through Dave?
Regards
John

[IPshooter]

Greetings,

Yesterday I tried making some HBWC with the grease grooves machined in.

What I did....

1) Cut alloyed Lead wire into slugs.
2) Swaged the slugs to 101 grains, 0.312" diameter
3) Machined two grease grooves on my lathe.
4) Greased item #3 with NRA Lube in a 0.3115" greaser die.
5) Swaged item #4 into a 0.312" HBWC with a button nose.

Observations....

NRA lube is too fluid. It gums up the swaging dies.

The finished bullet looks promising and I will test it one weekend against Speer and H&N bullets at 50 yards. If the groups look promising, I will try again with a harder lube that requires heat in the greaser.

Cheers,

Dave Wilson

Dave,

Do you know where I can find a sizing die for a Lyman in .3115? And in your experience, is it worthwhile to even try .3115 cast bullets in a .311 bore? Would their performance be significantly different from .312 cast bullets in that same bore?

Stan