I guess my comment has been answered.
Just got the impression from some of the writings that this looked rather expensive: If you've got easy access to the needed resources, it's a different thing from having to pay for it.
Gonna be interesting to read how this progresses. The way I see it, some of the value liies in what you learn from such projects.
Suggestion for weight reduction on an IZH 46M
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Here are the pieces of the puzzle, I think it will be an affordable solution to anybody handy
2" tape http://www.solarcomposites.com/composit ... abric.html using this with epoxy resin/glue to strengthen pivot points
25mm tube http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/category ... Tubes.html out of stock here a little more expensive here http://www.buddengineering.com/Merchant ... _Code=PCFT can be built here to pressure specs for more money http://www.carbonfibertubeshop.com/ about $45 for 10" (you need 9")
2 mm carbon sheet http://www.dragonplate.com/ecart/produc ... 769&cID=71 using this to substitute steel parts on the levers, keeping the aluminum parts.
the metal thread connection is being built here http://www.tmsprecisionmachining.com/
When it is done I will let you know if it works
2" tape http://www.solarcomposites.com/composit ... abric.html using this with epoxy resin/glue to strengthen pivot points
25mm tube http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/category ... Tubes.html out of stock here a little more expensive here http://www.buddengineering.com/Merchant ... _Code=PCFT can be built here to pressure specs for more money http://www.carbonfibertubeshop.com/ about $45 for 10" (you need 9")
2 mm carbon sheet http://www.dragonplate.com/ecart/produc ... 769&cID=71 using this to substitute steel parts on the levers, keeping the aluminum parts.
the metal thread connection is being built here http://www.tmsprecisionmachining.com/
When it is done I will let you know if it works
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2650 Plus
Post Subject
Paulo, Try lifting weights for six weeks and you will find that the 46 is not too heavy after all. Dont be lazy and all will be just fine. Also far less expensive. Good luck if you persist in your project. Good Shooting Bill Horton
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kevinweiho
- Posts: 945
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
- Location: Costa Rica, Central America
Re: Post Subject
I agree with the weight lifting regime. If you want to recommend any physical exercises please don't be shy.2650 Plus wrote:Paulo, Try lifting weights for six weeks and you will find that the 46 is not too heavy after all. Dont be lazy and all will be just fine. Also far less expensive. Good luck if you persist in your project. Good Shooting Bill Horton
Part of my plan was trying to equal weights with a Toz35M, not avoiding exercise. There is still a huge gap in weights between the two guns presently, but the heavier IZH is the one I shot higher scores with.
What I found out is that the heavier the gun the more force I had to apply to my grip, and that was counterproductive, since it tired my muscles quickly an introduced lots of motion, and gave me too much score variation during a match.
An optimum weight was also an objective. I realized from comparing all high end air guns that they were within 200grams weight range difference. So I tried to use that idea here as well.
This thread's been dead a while, so my apologies to anyone who's offended by such resurrections.
Paolo; it may be too late for this since you've milled out the cylinder in front of the compression chamber, perhaps weakening it too much... but on my 46m I simply removed the barrel clamp. This with its fixing hardware weighs about 15grams, a small but significant weight savings. Of course if your milled cylinder is un-supported by the barrel it could bend. Don't know unless you try, and that's a nasty sort of a risk. I only know that my 46m shot somewhat higher on removing the clamp, so I had to adjust the sights downwards a few clicks, and that after re-sighting there was no change in my average scores. I like the cleaner look of the pistol without the clamp, can't say for sure if I notice the reduced weight, and enjoy the somewhat 'livelier' feel of it when shooting now. It's a bit like a tuning fork, ringing on shooting, where previously with the clamp it was like hitting something with a dead-blow hammer.
I also find the 46m a bit heavy generally and do not want to go to a tank air system, so will stick with this pistol and just live with the weight. On disassembling the whole front end for cleaning this past week I was impressed with how light the individual components were, especially the lever. I'd shortened that about 3cm some time ago and added back on a smaller maple knob, as the original spacing was too close to the grip and forced me to close it with an open hand, making a louder *CLACK*. The shorter lever removed a bit more weight, and allows me to hold the lever knob while closing it and keep the noise down - it's embarrassing making so much noise with other shooters around using exotic and very quiet pistols.
I also shortened the trigger guard by about 1cm. No significant savings here, just getting it out of the way of pinching my hand on cocking the lever. And I've replaced the trigger with my own much more strongly canted trigger carved out of a 10mm stainless steel rod, which now allows my finger bone to sit exactly perpendicular to the trigger for a more precise engagement than the rather vague angular contact with the stock trigger, where too much finger fat was involved for a consistent release.
I also decided after hearing myself *CLACK* *CLACK* at a club last week (been shooting only at home before that) and being somewhat ashamed of the loud noises, to remove the automatic trigger cocking slide. Another small weight, but something. And the reduction in noise is significant. Since I'd already filed and polished rounded edges onto the parts around the transfer block and its lever and the catch block in front of it, pulling that back and up with finger and thumb is very comfortable. I just cock the trigger, enabling the compression valve to hold air, cock the main lever, then load and press the transfer block back into place as usual. Much neater and it only took me a few shots to get used to the new procedure.
The overall weight reduction in my case is about 29.8grams, just over one US ounce. Not huge, but something. My grip is quite light as it's carved from 'big leaf' maple - some leftover wood from making a new doublebass neck for a client. It is quite hollow as I carved it out to allow for rake adjustments, using a small bolt mechanism I designed into the rear of the grip. The overall grip weight is slightly less than the stock Baikal grip including its bolts and shelf, but this weight is of course meaningless being in the hand, not out in front of the hand.
If I were to attempt shaving any further weight it would likely be from the front of the cylinder, but I'd probably do it by hand-filing a gradual taper onto that cylinder and polishing it out rather than by milling grooves. And of course the areas around the pins would have to keep full thickness so the clips would stay firmly fitted. A rainy day project perhaps. I'll at least polish it, as there's some bluing damage where the clamp was fitted, and I saw a picture of someone's custom 46m with a mirror-polished cylinder and quite liked the look. Doubt I'd want to remove more than about another 10 grams this way though as it does seem Baikal's engineers have done a fairly good job as regards minimal structures. A titanium cylinder would certainly save significantly on overall front end weight... but that would bring the gun up in price rather
The lever blocks are very light indeed... but perhaps some holes could be drilled in them where strength was not needed. Doubt I'd bother, as the potential there would only be a couple of grams. The front sight block only weighs about 15grams, so again not much to be saved there, but it could be carved down a bit, make it rounded overall and take some out where there are no set screws. Perhaps 5grams could come off. Or one could even make a CF sight block, just a thin band around the barrel tip adhered with epoxy and a nut moulded into it for a set screw to enable swapping out of sight plates. But that'd be a lot of trouble to save maybe 10grams, less than 1% of the total mass. My rather trivial efforts in weight reduction have saved triple that with very little effort.
And a removable lever would just be annoying to use. One of the things attracting me to this pistol is the simplicity of operation. Shooting a 60 shot round plus warm-ups with just as many lever insertion/removal cycles would make me quit shooting. Too much fuss.
Paolo; it may be too late for this since you've milled out the cylinder in front of the compression chamber, perhaps weakening it too much... but on my 46m I simply removed the barrel clamp. This with its fixing hardware weighs about 15grams, a small but significant weight savings. Of course if your milled cylinder is un-supported by the barrel it could bend. Don't know unless you try, and that's a nasty sort of a risk. I only know that my 46m shot somewhat higher on removing the clamp, so I had to adjust the sights downwards a few clicks, and that after re-sighting there was no change in my average scores. I like the cleaner look of the pistol without the clamp, can't say for sure if I notice the reduced weight, and enjoy the somewhat 'livelier' feel of it when shooting now. It's a bit like a tuning fork, ringing on shooting, where previously with the clamp it was like hitting something with a dead-blow hammer.
I also find the 46m a bit heavy generally and do not want to go to a tank air system, so will stick with this pistol and just live with the weight. On disassembling the whole front end for cleaning this past week I was impressed with how light the individual components were, especially the lever. I'd shortened that about 3cm some time ago and added back on a smaller maple knob, as the original spacing was too close to the grip and forced me to close it with an open hand, making a louder *CLACK*. The shorter lever removed a bit more weight, and allows me to hold the lever knob while closing it and keep the noise down - it's embarrassing making so much noise with other shooters around using exotic and very quiet pistols.
I also shortened the trigger guard by about 1cm. No significant savings here, just getting it out of the way of pinching my hand on cocking the lever. And I've replaced the trigger with my own much more strongly canted trigger carved out of a 10mm stainless steel rod, which now allows my finger bone to sit exactly perpendicular to the trigger for a more precise engagement than the rather vague angular contact with the stock trigger, where too much finger fat was involved for a consistent release.
I also decided after hearing myself *CLACK* *CLACK* at a club last week (been shooting only at home before that) and being somewhat ashamed of the loud noises, to remove the automatic trigger cocking slide. Another small weight, but something. And the reduction in noise is significant. Since I'd already filed and polished rounded edges onto the parts around the transfer block and its lever and the catch block in front of it, pulling that back and up with finger and thumb is very comfortable. I just cock the trigger, enabling the compression valve to hold air, cock the main lever, then load and press the transfer block back into place as usual. Much neater and it only took me a few shots to get used to the new procedure.
The overall weight reduction in my case is about 29.8grams, just over one US ounce. Not huge, but something. My grip is quite light as it's carved from 'big leaf' maple - some leftover wood from making a new doublebass neck for a client. It is quite hollow as I carved it out to allow for rake adjustments, using a small bolt mechanism I designed into the rear of the grip. The overall grip weight is slightly less than the stock Baikal grip including its bolts and shelf, but this weight is of course meaningless being in the hand, not out in front of the hand.
If I were to attempt shaving any further weight it would likely be from the front of the cylinder, but I'd probably do it by hand-filing a gradual taper onto that cylinder and polishing it out rather than by milling grooves. And of course the areas around the pins would have to keep full thickness so the clips would stay firmly fitted. A rainy day project perhaps. I'll at least polish it, as there's some bluing damage where the clamp was fitted, and I saw a picture of someone's custom 46m with a mirror-polished cylinder and quite liked the look. Doubt I'd want to remove more than about another 10 grams this way though as it does seem Baikal's engineers have done a fairly good job as regards minimal structures. A titanium cylinder would certainly save significantly on overall front end weight... but that would bring the gun up in price rather
The lever blocks are very light indeed... but perhaps some holes could be drilled in them where strength was not needed. Doubt I'd bother, as the potential there would only be a couple of grams. The front sight block only weighs about 15grams, so again not much to be saved there, but it could be carved down a bit, make it rounded overall and take some out where there are no set screws. Perhaps 5grams could come off. Or one could even make a CF sight block, just a thin band around the barrel tip adhered with epoxy and a nut moulded into it for a set screw to enable swapping out of sight plates. But that'd be a lot of trouble to save maybe 10grams, less than 1% of the total mass. My rather trivial efforts in weight reduction have saved triple that with very little effort.
And a removable lever would just be annoying to use. One of the things attracting me to this pistol is the simplicity of operation. Shooting a 60 shot round plus warm-ups with just as many lever insertion/removal cycles would make me quit shooting. Too much fuss.
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It is a great gun, heavy or light.
The mount of the front sights is very heavy, take it off and check for yourself.
The non aluminum parts of the pumping levers, the shorter ones and the guide, are extremely heavy in comparison to the long aluminum one.
Milling two openings on the tube has not caused any injury to the gun's functionality or structure. That tube is the problem, you will find how heavy it is if you ever need to change the o-rings at the base.
Like your idea of removing the ring that connects the tube from the barrel.
Happy shooting.
The mount of the front sights is very heavy, take it off and check for yourself.
The non aluminum parts of the pumping levers, the shorter ones and the guide, are extremely heavy in comparison to the long aluminum one.
Milling two openings on the tube has not caused any injury to the gun's functionality or structure. That tube is the problem, you will find how heavy it is if you ever need to change the o-rings at the base.
Like your idea of removing the ring that connects the tube from the barrel.
Happy shooting.
Sure, and Pilkguns is offering the LP2 Compact at $1650, so if one has that sort of cash on hand it's a great option. I don't see prices for the FWB models you mention, but being FWB... well, they're pricey I'm fairly sure. As the 46m is available for less than 1/3 the price of one of these fine pistols, and as it is capable of accuracy just as good or at least so close that no shooter so far has come close to matching the pistol's potential scores, it does seem a good bet to work with the 46m in cases where money is an issue. And as a violinmaker who has met a good many families of young violinists, as well as their teachers, I can assure you that price is often high on the list of important factors when shopping for such items for kids. Even in middle class families. So as nice as it would be for us all to just buy the latest fine shooting tools from Europe, such is not always practical. As such, finding ways to make the less glamorous pistols perform better on a budget can be useful... just as fitting up some good strings and getting a fiddle adjusted properly can make a big difference for a kid, even if it's only a $500 fiddle.