Can't Get Rifle to Stop Drifting to the Side - Prone

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:46 pm

This has been happening for about two weeks now. I didn't change anything for it to start (I've tried changing things to fix it, but nothing, including going back to my original settings, is working). I'm a left handed shooter and the rifle is drifting to my right, across me. I've tried loosening and tightening the sling, adjusting where it sits on my arm, moving the butt in and out, offsetting it more and less. I've tried exaggeratedly moving my elbow to the right and right up to the point where it collapses, it's still drifting to the right. I used to be able to exhale about vertically onto the target and have it sit still. Now it just comes up and while I'm relaxed, drifts to the right, so I have no hold whatsoever. It's slow, but until it sits steady there's precious little point firing shots. My jacket is getting to be a bit big as I'm losing weight and I'm firefighting against it dragging around my shoulder and arm and my sling is definitely in need of replacing as I can't get it to pull from the outside of the arm at all with the same issue. Has anyone any suggestions as I'm going crazy trying to sort it. Scores have dropped dramatically and my mental game has gone to hell as I can't focus on anything while I'm constantly drifting.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:21 pm

How much weight have you lost and how loose is the jacket. Does it still feel a good fit across the shoulders.Is you support elbow too far to the left causing you to collapse down during the shoot.Is you jacket slipping around your arm or the sling pulling the arm of the jacket around your arm.
Can you post some pictures of you in position, that would be the best, pictures can say more than words in this case.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Lost about 15kg so far. Jacket doesn't offer any real support across the shoulders anymore and both drags down the arm and twists around the arm and shoulder in position. I'll try get photos but may be difficult.

Incidentally, I've tried lowering the position as a last resort (I like a high position, much easier on the body) and the movement seems a lot more vertical now. I can't feel any drift, but I've yet to bring in an aiming mark this time as I'm raising it in increments first.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:47 pm

I think lowering your position with a poor fitting jacket offering little support is going to make matters worse.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:54 am

Apologies if it's a daft question - but have you tried moving the top button in to make it a snugger fit ? It's difficult to tell if it's an artifact of the clothing or if your position has somehow collapsed. What does it feel like when you get into position and find your NPA ? Does it feel solid or kind of 'floppy' ?

Rob.

BGC · Post by **BGC** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:36 am

I had the same problem, but drifting to the left (I´m right handed.)
I found out it all had to do with the position of my elbows. Everytime I rested, they moved a little without my notice. Along the match, my left elbow got closer to the rifle. At the same time I corrected this by moving my right closer to the body.
Those two actions caused a drift to the left, and of course losing my zero point.

My solution was to adjust my pistol grip a little (moving it sideways, out from the stock). I also pay attention to my left elbow, so it's not to close to the stock from the beginning.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:58 am

RobStubbs wrote:Apologies if it's a daft question - but have you tried moving the top button in to make it a snugger fit ? It's difficult to tell if it's an artifact of the clothing or if your position has somehow collapsed. What does it feel like when you get into position and find your NPA ? Does it feel solid or kind of 'floppy' ?

Rob.

To be honest Rob, I've moved it over quite a bit already. I could go a bit more but the jacket would be fixed even further in its rotation around me then and that seems like it'll bring a new pile of problems. I've been working with and without an aiming mark for a while now. When I get down without the aiming mark, it feels good, nice and solid, but introduce a point of reference in the aiming mark and you can watch the slow drift. It's driving me up the wall.

@ BGC I've been trying to get the elbow to move out but right up to and including exaggerated outward positions, it's still drifting to the right. My coach is predominantly an air rifle coach and is dealing with me primarily in terms of methodology of training so it doesn't seem fair to ask him to fix the position.

I do think the fact that the sleeve twists and the sling pulls from the inside of the arm is a big problem, and as the jacket drags around the shoulder and down with more weight loss, this problem has become more pronounced. The sling keeper just can't keep the sling to the outside as it's being dragged around with the sleeve and shoulder.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:36 am

I do think the fact that the sleeve twists and the sling pulls from the inside of the arm is a big problem, and as the jacket drags around the shoulder and down with more weight loss, this problem has become more pronounced. The sling keeper just can't keep the sling to the outside as it's being dragged around with the sleeve and shoulder.

OK If you think it's that moving then test it. Put the sling in the wrong position (i.e. on the iside where it can't turn any more). Then get into position and watch for the drift. If it keeps happening it isn't the sling moving.

Rob.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:20 am

Nono, I mean the problem is that the sling immediately turns around to the inside and pulls consistently from there, rather than that it moves around as I settle. If it were settling, there'd be an end point, but I can't see one. Can't figure out what's so loose in the right arm that's letting the shoulder collapse and the whole affair falling over.

KennyB · Post by **KennyB** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:52 am

Hi Dave,
three questions:

1. do you grip the stock with your trigger (left) hand or lightly hold it with fingertips (or something in between)?

2. how much weight do you place on your left elbow (left leg lifted or not)?

3. is the right elbow ending up under the rifle (and the cant increasing) as it drifts right.

Ken.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:20 am

@Kenny

1. Yes, usually I'm in solid contact with it but currently, I'm trying to fix this without gripping as I don't want to start holding on target inadvdertently. An issue is that I can feel the pistol grip slipping away from my hand as the rifle falls forward and towards me.

2. Left leg is not exaggeratedly high but it's up to give breathing room. There's weight into the left elbow alright, but now I can feel it lifting almost as I relax.

3. Yes, and I can't seem tp push the the right elbow far enough to the outside to stop it, right up to the point where it just wobbles and falls down.

I might try adjust the buttons later on, but with the extra slide to the right, it might just lead to the sleeve dropping more.

I also have the sling high on my arm. Might dropping it lower work? These are the only things I can think of that I haven't tried.

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:21 am

It sounds like the same problem I had when I switched rifle.

The solution for me was to have my elbow closer to my body which gave me a higher and more comfortable position. What I mean is that I didn't extend my left arm as long forward as I did before. I'm a right hand shooter.

Hope you understand my english I'm from Sweden and it's a while since I was in school.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:42 am

I've been doing some more work with the mirror. I can't quite get it to stop, but I've got it to slow down somewhat. I moved the buttons on the jacket in by about three quarters of an inch, so the jacket now buttons in a line probably halfway between nipple and sternum on my left side and I've been paying attention to leaning more weight into the left elbow. It's not perfect, but I'll have to see how it goes with live fire. Should get a chance to try that tomorrow. I suspect recoil will be pretty awful in terms of consistency as the left elbow is proving troublesome. Now that I have to think about it, zero position is much harder to get consistent with the elbow working in a short arc which establishes the zero differently, and, unless fixed, will eventually lead to the same turning and leaning problem.

WesternGrizzly · Post by **WesternGrizzly** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:31 pm

I have this same issue. But I havent figured out an answer yet. so I cant be of much help. But I do have a two questions.
1. What direction is your approach from? Does it come from 6 oclock or from some other direction?
2. Would it be possible to provide pictures?
Best wishes,
Matt

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:10 pm

I'll try get pictures shortly, but as to approach, it comes up in a narrow wobble from 6 o'clock and then moves right with the breathing in a sawtooth pattern, so ^^^^^. I think I'm focusing on sight picture and subconsciously holding the rifle on when I'm at my best compromise of being relaxed and on target and the pistol grip hand is probably controlling a bit much. Pushing the elbow right out in front seems to have helped slow it too, though have to put some effort into stretching before shooting now so as not to strain the right shoulder and upper arm. I'd rather nail it down and sort out the drift issues completely, rather than just progressively reduce them, but I'm afraid the jacket and sling may be too much an issue for that at the moment. Going to pick up a new sling in Munich in a couple of weeks anyway at least, and hopefully a new suit at the end of the summer.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:46 am

Dave IRL wrote:Going to pick up a new sling in Munich in a couple of weeks anyway at least, and hopefully a new suit at the end of the summer.

Bring your jacket with you, borrow Gary's rifle and we'll take a look in Munich ;)

Rob.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:25 am

Double post

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:26 am

RobStubbs wrote:
Dave IRL wrote:Going to pick up a new sling in Munich in a couple of weeks anyway at least, and hopefully a new suit at the end of the summer.
Bring your jacket with you, borrow Gary's rifle and we'll take a look in Munich ;)

Rob.

Hehe, don't think it'll fit easily in my hand luggage! Didn't know you were heading out too though. Steak and beers will be in order some evening. Mine is a bog standard Gehmann synthetic 432 sling, no buckle or anything to orient the cuff around the upper arm, which is a problem that's getting progressively worse as time goes on and I lose more weight. I'll be ordering a new suit in the next few months though, so at least there's an endgame in sight.

I'll be heading to the range for a bit today anyway and can see how I get on then. I'm keen to try and find an overall solution rather than just reduce the problem by half a dozen different measures.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:45 am

Just to come back to this and share some solutions I came up with over the past while. I lowered the sling keeper on the arm, which has reduced the twist around the arm and resulted in a more direct and consistent pull straight to the handstop. I got a MEC handstop (was already on its way) and offset it to bring the rifle's weight more over my hand than my wrist, directing weight outwards and spreading it across more support surface. I rotated the buttplate carrier towards me as there had been a sensation of twisting and gripping at either end which hadn't been helping. The turn has been somewhat counter-intuitive, but a secondary result has been that there's now buttplate behind the axis of the bore as well as good contact in the shoulder without twisting, so recoil should be improved. Was hoping to get to the range today but it'll have to be tomorrow now. Hopefully the results are good. It feels good. Ultimately, there are still issues resulting from a cheap crappy sling that doesn't locate properly or consistently and a jacket that doesn't fit well across the shoulders and with too much material on the back, but the sling I'll pick up in Munich at the weekend, and a new suit will be ordered at the end of the summer. If I can get to a point where I can train consistently well meanwhile, even with substandard results, I'll be very happy, and the results will follow with better kit. I hope this is some useful information for people, particular Western Grizzly, who'd been having a similar issue. It's a lot of changes, so there's a lot of reinforcement to be done now, but it feels solid and I'm happy to continue with this for now.

WesternGrizzly · Post by **WesternGrizzly** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:47 pm

I actually did the same thing. I lowered the sling a little bit on my arm and it helped some. Lowering the sling really shrank my hold. It took the hold from a ten ring (with heavy pulse) to sub x ring with no pulse (on the 50 meter international target.)