Training vs Match scores

[James D.]

I’ve done my homeworks : I’ve checked past threads, I found shooters in similar situations as mine but none exactly like mine.

I shoot both ISSF 3P and prone. As I live in a rural area, I always train alone. My problem is that I always get nervous at the beginning of a match. My heart beats faster. I know that I will loose many points because of this. Usually, things get better as soon as I can fire 3-4 10’s in a row. What is very frustrating is that I am NEVER able to do as well in a match as in training.

I followed the advice to attend as many matchs as possible, I do visualization, I do relaxation exercises, I have read ‘’Mental training in shooting’’, I try to focus on the tasks I have to do, I keep on saying myself that shooting is what I love the most and that I am there for pleasure but still…I always loose precious points at my first few targets….

Any advices or thoughts for me ?

[Soupy44]

Best drill I can think of would be to sight in, and then shoot 5-10 shots and stop. Then get up, maybe mess with your sights a little and repeat.

Can you get the 3-4 10s in a row in your sighters during the match and that calm you down?

[Sparks]

Well, you could try this.

Sacrifice your next match to an experiment. Accept before going in that your score won't be the best you can do, and that you're just going to the match to test something, nothing more. Ask to be left out of the running for prizes if you can. Then do your normal match prep, shoot your sighters as normal, and when you're ready and you think your sights are okay, put away your spotting scope or turn the monitor so you can't see the shots or whatever it takes.

Then, without looking at where your shots are falling, shoot the match. On each shot, focus not on what score you're shooting, but your shot routine. With each shot, rate it yourself - did you follow your shot routine or not? Did you release the trigger cleanly? Was your sight picture good? How was your sight alignment? How was your inner position? Rate everything that happens at the firing point and nothing that happens anywhere else.

After the match, check your groups.

Odds are, you'll have shot quite well, maybe as well as in training. If you haven't, then you might want to work on your shot routine in a more technical way - maybe there's a bug in it, or maybe you've not practiced it enough to trust it fully; but either way, the whole match/training problem seems to be down to the whole process focus/outcome focus switch. Not looking at the outcome is a bit of a cheat to try to shove your brain back into process focus mode...

[Dave IRL]

You're not going to stop feeling nerves, or if you are, it's not something I've managed. However, you can beat them. Focus on your fundamentals all the way through the shot. Personally, I get sighted, take a couple of minutes' break, get down and fire a few shots to establish rhythm, then go straight into the match and aim to match the shot rhythm without the pause. Last match I shot, my last two sighters and first two match shots went 10.9, 10.7 *start* 10.6, 10.8 without a pause. Rhythm and focus on technique and good shot release will overcome the nerves for me. You're still excited (and that gets worse for me with a couple of good tens in the bag - and I don't want that excitement to go away) but focus and discipline will get you over them.

[Brian M]

It's allin your head.. HOW you set yourself up with self talk. For instance...

My heart beats faster. I know that I will loose many points because of this.

Junk like that is Specifically what's causing you to shoot differently. I remember when I was a Jr shooter, my BEST scores were 100% always shot in a match. Heck, it's still true today. Since I Believe that I shoot better in competition (I train alone in my basement as well), I do. YOU believe you'll shoot worse in competition for some odd reason, so you do.

Now, to Fix that.. well, uncharted territory for me as I never got sucked into the hole you're currently in. Perhaps Daily written and spoken affirmations that you Like shooting in competitions, that you enjoy the competition experience, it makes you feel good/happy and you thus shoot well.

I do agree with Sparks ~ the entire time I've been shooting, I never self-score. When I was doing rifle, I'd get sighted in and knock the spotting scope out of the way so I wouldn't even be tempted to look. The shot that's down-range is already done, looking at it or adding them up does ME no good as a shooter... quite the contrary, if you self score you do yourself major injustice by adding unnecessary pressure.


The above is assuming that you have the technical process down and are capable of AA class scores. If not, then it's possible to have too much positive self image (it's being cocky at that point.. :D ). But it sounds like you're just a victim of negative self talk... like thousands of others.

[Dave IRL]

The above is assuming that you have the technical process down and are capable of AA class scores. If not, then it's possible to have too much positive self image (it's being cocky at that point.. :D ). But it sounds like you're just a victim of negative self talk... like thousands of others.

Personally, I would say that the mental game is interrupting whatever technical process he's got going on altogether. That's what the example I used was intended to illustrate, that focusing on putting one element of the routine correctly after the other at a time will pay the dividends. I dunno what the classification scores are in the USA, but I will say that in my experience, the only thing separating someone who's learned the mechanics of shooting a single ten and who understands them from someone with an Olympic medal around their neck is the attention they pay to consistently applying the same principles shot after shot.

[Brian M]

...but I will say that in my experience, the only thing separating someone who's learned the mechanics of shooting a single ten and who understands them from someone with an Olympic medal around their neck is the attention they pay to consistently applying the same principles shot after shot.

I agree 100%

I was talking more about the issues AFTER having a rock-solid shot process. We're both on the same page, I just jumped ahead a paragraph. :D

[westerngriz]

One of my coaches is a great shooter. He loves to shoot in the few matches that have all three aspects of shooting. (rifle pistol and shot gun) And this is what he told me.
"I was having trouble with my pistol scores. So i went to a world class coach and told him what I wanted to do and when I wanted to do it. He taught me enough to get by and feel confident with my shooting.
The day of the match came and it was the pistol stage. I had 4 magazines with 5 rounds each at arms length so I wouldnt have to change anything once I got the grip of the pistol. I put the first round down range and looked in the spotting scope....Pinwheel X. I turned the scope away so I could focus on my shooting. I finished the first three mags (15 rnds) and thought "i should look at my group. Because if it starts wandering I want to correct it." I looked in the scope and I had just shot 15 Xs.... My next shot was a 9. Because I thought about the value and not the process."

Matt

[Bowman26]

Never tell yourself you are going to do something as you will always end up subconciously making it a reality it would seem. I like to dry fire a couple times if I am feeling a bit to ants in the pants on the line when they give the fire command.

Shooting silhouette at big matches we often have 30-45 minutes between relays of 10 shots with no sighters allowed once the match starts. This was always a big issue for me and having to get unsettled each time over and over and not learning to get into the flow right from the get go 1st shot. Now I practice a lot just leaving the rifle out and walking over when I think about it every 30-60 minutes and shooting 10-20 rounds or dry firing no matter what my physical state of rest at that moment.

You have to learn to shoot with the pressure and the nerves and if you never put yourself in those situations except on the match line it will affect you greatly. The other day I had caterpillars climbing up the back of my leg while the neighbors dog barked at me, great practice :) You have to learn how to cope and deal with those moments of stress in how you approach things differently perhaps to make the shot happen as smooth as possible at that moment. Find a way to your happy place no matter how you are feeling and be ready on the trigger the sight picture will appear for you eventually lol.


Bo

[Isabel1130]

James D, I really liked the experiment that Sparks proposed. I started shooting competitively three years ago and have have shot at least 75 matches since. I now know what I have to do in both practice and a match to execute a good shot. The only thing I am dealing with is mental issues.
When you are at a match, your desire for perfection becomes your worst enemy. The perfect is the enemy of the good enough. You tense up because you are afraid to make a bad shot. Being afraid to make a bad shot is not the way to execute a good shot because shooting a good shot is an affirmative act of both relaxation and confidence.

Even though my sights appear to move more at a match because of nerves, they are really not bouncing around the way that I think they are. Howver watching the sights bounce makes me back off the trigger which leads me to holding longer than I should or ever would in dry fire.

I find I get really good results when I am able to think "dry fire" successfully before every shot. In timed and rapid fire, I try to focus on nothing but a smooth consistent trigger pull

[Pat McCoy]

Match tension, nerves, being afraid to make a bad shot are all symptoms of the same thing, fear. You must ask yourself WHAT it is you fear, and banish that fear.

Will your life change based on the results of the match? If not, what is there to fear.

FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real.

[Freepistol]

...but I will say that in my experience, the only thing separating someone who's learned the mechanics of shooting a single ten and who understands them from someone with an Olympic medal around their neck is the attention they pay to consistently applying the same principles shot after shot.

I agree 100%

I was talking more about the issues AFTER having a rock-solid shot process. We're both on the same page, I just jumped ahead a paragraph. :D

Brian, I have similar experiences as you. I started competitive shooting with a rifle and in outdoor conventional prone my new record scores were shot at matches--mostly because I never trained at 50 yds. I also think it was an advantage when I switched to free pistol. I don't get all excited shooting 6 tens in a row because I expected to shoot 160 in a row when shooting prone. When I was seriously shooting FP in the mid 90s, I planned to shoot a new high at every competition. My concentration is always better in competition than when training.
Ben

[Jason]

This is a great thread and I don't want to derail it, but my situation is similar to James' -- I live a long ways from other shooters and train by myself -- but my scores are almost always better at a match than in training.

I can think of a couple reasons for this: (1) I try to train process more than score at home; (2) I train on a wide-open, windy range and often in the company of other shooter firing much larger calibres; (3) I only get to a few matches every summer so I'm so happy to be there I'm already in a more positive mental mood.

I do still get the jitters and I find it takes me a long time to settle in position for my first relay, but after my sighters I'm usually able to focus fairly quickly. And like Freepistol, I'm also able to concentrate better when I'm at a match.

Jason

[Levergun59]

James,
What was your call on those first shots? If you are just nervous, try this. Close your eyes, relax, roll your eyes in a 360* motion for 30 seconds. Relax and feel your pulse drop. Now visualize a 10 and shoot it. It,s self hypnosis. I use it to fall asleep when I need too or drop my heart rate before a shot. You may think I am crazy or dilusional, but it does work. My original thought was that your barrel needed some warm up time, so that is why I asked for the call.
Chris

[guidolastra]

IT IS AMAZING HOW MANY OF US ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION. I LIVE IN MISSOURI AND I AM THE ONLY ONE SHOOTING ISSF STYLE RIFLE. I TRAIN AIR RIFLE IN MY BASEMENT 3-5 TIMES PER WEEK, AND SMALLBORE DRYFIRE WITH SCATT AND AT THE RANGE 1-2 PER WEEK (ALONG WITH PEOPLE SHOOTING DEER RIFLES, ETC...).
I ALSO HAV ETHE SAME PROBLEM, AND I THINK IT IS BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF COMPETITION. TRAINING ALONE DOES NOT HELP EITHER. I TRY TO COMPETE AS MUCH AS I CAN, BUT THAT IS SOMETIMES DIFFICULT AND EXPENSIVE 9AIR TRAVEL, HOTELS, ETC...).
ONE OF THE THINGS I DO TO KEEP AND FEEL "ACTIVE" IS TO SHOOT POSTAL MATCHES. IT IS NOT THE SAME, BUT IT DOES GIVE SOME SENSE OF COMPETITION.

[robf]

Match stress is a very wide and interlinked subject to sum up in a thread, which is why I won't attempt it. For a solo shooter, who isn't being coached, it's quite thing to grasp and deal with. I've been there.

What you are feeling and seeing is quite normal though. Things that will help will be to gain more match experience, to the point where it becomes more of a normality and less of a special event that you become keyed up on the outcome of, more than the doing of. That won't mean you approach it with any less care, more that your concentration should shift onto the shot process itself and for that concentration to be more focused on that, and less distracted by the stress of the situation. If that takes extra effort to do, try it, and see what happens.

Stress is the negative space between your expectations and reality. The reality is that your brain is telling you there is a difference between training and competition, and thus the reality will be different in your results. You can try fooling your brain, but it will get you in the end (well it does me), so try and change your approach to deal with what counts, and what doesn't. The shot process is what counts, thinking about a win or loss doesn't make any difference to the mechanics of firing a perfect shot, you don't will it onto the 10 and hope, you support it there and send the shot into it by using the shooting process.

However, turn it on it's head. If you accept that to start with, stress will be along for the ride, then you can use it to improve your shooting. It will find the weak point in your shooting. So if you keep an objective eye on what goes wrong when you are under stress, it will point out what you could then work on in training afterwards.

If you can, try and forget score. Focus as much concentration on carrying out the shot process as best you can, all the elements that make up a good shot. Don't let yourself be distracted by the score, or the result, just the mechanics of firing a good shot. No doubt you will be nervous of the outcome at first, but the more you become absorbed and involved in the shot process, the less 'space' in your head nervousness etc will be able to occupy.

Sometimes you have to accept that you will be nervous etc, and just concentrate on what counts (the shot process) rather than what could be 'if' you get it all right.

Another aspect is stress induces arousal, which has an optimum point, but it changes your body and brain chemistry and quickly burns up resources, so muscles that you use to hold my tire quicker, or certainly not be able to achieve their optimum that they do when you're relaxed in training. These fine differences may mean the difference between holding a 10, and hanging around the 10 ring with less control. Which is why dialing out as much muscle from the shooting position, and using the body's solid support helps. On the flip side, if you are not switched on enough, you can make sloppy mistakes. A great bit of advice i had was that you need to find the right level of trepidation, and also that the optimum arousal is just slightly uncomfortable.

And if it all goes wrong, keep an eye on what went wrong, and it will give you a clue on what to work on for next time. A common comment is that hold just goes, which suggests that your hold isn't that stable to start with (stable in it's ability to resist change or influence, such as mental stress). Turn the negative into a positive for the future.

Preparation can be an important part in reducing potential stress before a match as well. See if you can avoid the speedbumps before they occur with some planning (simple stuff to start with like getting there on time etc)

I'd seek a coach and see what they advise. Everyone is different. For me, all the zen stuff don't work... what I do know from shooting in a national final and winning, when all was to play for, was that my mind was 100% absorbed on every single aspect of the process and not what was at stake. And although I was aware of onlookers, cameras and the event itself, those distractions were discarded as being irrelevant and I worked on the simple steps of making a shot good. It worked.

Good luck. When you crack it and you get a result that rewards the hard work it's an awesome feeling, and you will understand what being in the zone is, and hopefully be able to repeat it more often. So much about shooting isn't about getting 10/10 each time, but making small improvements over time. Give yourself that chance :)

[RobStubbs]

I'm oversimplifying things I know but generally people shoot matches poorer than training because they do things differently. Some talk about relaxation etc, but do you train that and do it at every training session, or just when nervous at a match ?

What I personally find helps me is to really concentrate on good technique. My mind wanders off in training which is somewhat similar to nerves in matches. I refocus by thinking of the technique and visualising the perfect sight picture. - that generally calms me down.

Forget score completely. The shot holes are merely there for positive affirmation of good technique. Praise each good shot and forget the poor ones and just repeat that process.

Another thing to remember is that you are shooting 60 1-shot matches. You can't influence the shots you've made or the ones in the future, just the one in the barrel at the time. Make that one the best technically that you can and move on to the next one.

If you've done it right you'll either have no idea of score at the end or just a feeling that it went well.

Rob.

[Micaela Vrtiska]

Something that helped me was to have people stare at me while I practiced, even make alot of weird/loud noises. This also helps w/ blocking out "the world" while shooting. Before the match starts, talk to other shooters, this will help you get comfortable & relaxed at the tournament.

[Spencer]

to revitalise this thread with a wild thought...

How do you know your training scores are better than your competition scores? Surely you are neither 'scoring the shot values' in your training nor assessing your training by the scoring of the training shots.

Far better to assess the training shots by evaluating the basics involved in each training session shot (stability, breathing, sight picture, shot release and follow through). A tick/cross in a box for each of these for each shot will give you a more reliable assessment of each shot than the scoring value.

In a situation where your training scores are better than your competition scores, every time this happens you are reinforcing the wrong message - simply don't 'score' your training by the shot values but by how good the shot was achieved. For training purposes you could even put x clicks on the windage and y clicks on the elevation (the numbers are immaterial) and look at the group size to remove the score numbers mind-set.

[Clintw]

I've attributed match jitters to a rush of adrenaline and found exercise before the match or a 3-4hr drive helpful in using up my adrenaline. A little exhaustion seems to put my body into autopilot, which isn't the best for concentration but better than extra jitters.

I've also eliminated caffeine and excessive sugar beforehand as well.

Clint