Hi everyone,
I am moving to England soon and would like to take my air pistol with me so I can practice during my stay.
Because air pistols are not considered firearms in the US, do I need to declare that as a firearm when I check in at the airport? If not, what do I declare? And does it need to be in a LOCKED hard case like actual pistols? I am using the original Morini plastic case which does not even have slots for locks.
Also, I've heard horror stories about compressed air cylinders... what's the deal with that? Do I need to ship them separately?
I am flying with Delta Airlines out of Boston. So if anybody had any similar experience, I'd really appreciate your input!
Thanks for your help
Beckett
Air Travel with Air Pistol
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
I've flown with tanks recently out of Washington Dulles Airport and out of Frankfurt Germany. No problems at all.
Ask your Delta gate agent if you must declare a firearm; I've flown to the UK with a pistol that had the German low power stamp and the airline said I did not have to declare it as a firearm. The airline wanted it inside a locked case inside a locked suitcase. Returning from the UK they didn't even want to hear about it. (not a firearm, sir).
It is still useful to have a tag on the suitcase so the x-ray operator doesn't freak out when he sees the gun...
Make sure your gun is legal in the UK w/o the dreaded Firearms Certificate!
--pz
Ask your Delta gate agent if you must declare a firearm; I've flown to the UK with a pistol that had the German low power stamp and the airline said I did not have to declare it as a firearm. The airline wanted it inside a locked case inside a locked suitcase. Returning from the UK they didn't even want to hear about it. (not a firearm, sir).
It is still useful to have a tag on the suitcase so the x-ray operator doesn't freak out when he sees the gun...
Make sure your gun is legal in the UK w/o the dreaded Firearms Certificate!
--pz
If your gun is not legal in the UK; more than 6ft/lbs ME; then it will be confiscated! No point in applying for a Firearm Certificate (FAC) as it will be classified as a Section 5 Firearm for which (in general) certficates are not issued.Make sure your gun is legal in the UK w/o the dreaded Firearms Certificate!
You should also be aware that although your air pistol is legal (less than 6ft/lbs ME) it is still a "firearm" under UK law. It just does't require a FAC.
You should declare it at customs when arriving in the UK. Provided it is a normal target air pistol and you state that it is less than 6ft/lbs ME, I would not anticipate you having any problems. However if you want "peace of mind" get it chrono'd and have a test certificate available.
The air cylinders should be empty for travelling.
Where are you staying in the UK and do you have a contact for a club here?
Rutty
I'm in contact with Beckett and he is coming to Cambridge, for which I've emailed him some contacts.
It is really not necessary to worry about muzzle energy for target air pistols, unless someone has messed about with it then it will be well under 6 ft / lbs. I would suggest you don't confuse things by even mentioning it at the airport - but by all means test it yourself ahead of times to assure yourself it's OK.
And yes, you will need to declare it to UK customs. But it should be handled separately by the airport staff and shouldn't come through on the normal baggage carousel. Sometimes a contract security company accompany you with it - but not always.
Rob.
It is really not necessary to worry about muzzle energy for target air pistols, unless someone has messed about with it then it will be well under 6 ft / lbs. I would suggest you don't confuse things by even mentioning it at the airport - but by all means test it yourself ahead of times to assure yourself it's OK.
And yes, you will need to declare it to UK customs. But it should be handled separately by the airport staff and shouldn't come through on the normal baggage carousel. Sometimes a contract security company accompany you with it - but not always.
Rob.
Assuming:
1. your pistol is legal there, and
2. you have done whatever paperwork you might have to do to own it.
If it were me, I would empty the cylinder(s), pack it securely and ship it to myself (or have a friend ship it to me once I've got settled in).
The only fact that matters is that airline and TSA personnel don't know or care about the rules. There is way to big an opportunity for them to make it up as they go - most times to your detriment. At least postal employees know to consult the rules & regs before they make your life miserable.
If my many trips to Canada are an indication of how other Commonwealth countries behave, you have nothing to worry about from English Customs and lots to fear from your American countrymen.
1. your pistol is legal there, and
2. you have done whatever paperwork you might have to do to own it.
If it were me, I would empty the cylinder(s), pack it securely and ship it to myself (or have a friend ship it to me once I've got settled in).
The only fact that matters is that airline and TSA personnel don't know or care about the rules. There is way to big an opportunity for them to make it up as they go - most times to your detriment. At least postal employees know to consult the rules & regs before they make your life miserable.
If my many trips to Canada are an indication of how other Commonwealth countries behave, you have nothing to worry about from English Customs and lots to fear from your American countrymen.
Thanks for your input, everyone!
Rutty -- I'm gonna be staying in Cambridge for 6 months. I'm in touch with Rob Stubbs and the University club there. My Morini has the CIP low power stamp on it and it's actually be tuned down to fit the Canadian muzzle velocity requirement, so I think I'm fine on that.
William -- minor correction: i'm actually Canadian (only studying in the US) but I do share your view on the TSA ;-)
pz -- 'the airline wanted it inside a locked case inside a locked suitcase', was it Delta?
Rutty -- I'm gonna be staying in Cambridge for 6 months. I'm in touch with Rob Stubbs and the University club there. My Morini has the CIP low power stamp on it and it's actually be tuned down to fit the Canadian muzzle velocity requirement, so I think I'm fine on that.
William -- minor correction: i'm actually Canadian (only studying in the US) but I do share your view on the TSA ;-)
pz -- 'the airline wanted it inside a locked case inside a locked suitcase', was it Delta?
Hi Beckett
If your pistol is a Morini it will probably have the "F in a pentagon" stamp which means it's under 6 ft/lbs and legal in the EU which includes Britain.
If you find yourself in Norfolk (just up the road from Cambridge) you are welcome to shoot with our club (Norwich City Target Club) in Norwich.
Good Shooting
Robin
If your pistol is a Morini it will probably have the "F in a pentagon" stamp which means it's under 6 ft/lbs and legal in the EU which includes Britain.
If you find yourself in Norfolk (just up the road from Cambridge) you are welcome to shoot with our club (Norwich City Target Club) in Norwich.
Good Shooting
Robin
This is the reply I received from the TSA today
Thank you for your email message concerning the checked baggage screening process and how it affects passengers carrying firearms in checked baggage.
On flights that originate in the U.S. passengers can transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111 under the following conditions:
. the firearm must be unloaded;
. it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage;
. it must be in a locked hard-sided container; and
. it must be declared to the airline.
If these conditions are met, the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it.
The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law to electronically screen all checked baggage that goes aboard a commercial passenger flight. If electronic screening cannot verify that a bag and its contents are safe to bring onboard the flight, TSOs will inspect the bag by hand. TSA, therefore, encourages (but does not require) passengers to keep their checked bags unlocked to facilitate the process and reduce the need to break locks.
TSA recommends that you place the locked hard-sided container with the firearm inside a suitcase or other bag before you check it with your airline. This will allow you to leave your suitcase unlocked but also to comply with the requirement that the firearm be in a locked container.
You can use a hard-sided locked suitcase as the sole container for your firearm. However, this can lead to one of the two following complications if your bag needs to be inspected by hand:
. If the TSOs can determine from the screening equipment that the bag contains a firearm, they will not open it. They will instead attempt to locate you and obtain the key or combination so that they can inspect the bag. If they cannot locate you, the bag will not be allowed onboard the aircraft.
. If the TSOs do not see that the bag contains a firearm before they open it, they may force open the lock and proceed to inspect the bag. Once the lock is forced open, the bag cannot be allowed on an aircraft until it is relocked. TSA will attempt to locate you and make suitable arrangements.
These potential inconveniences can be avoided by following TSA's recommendation that you pack your firearm by itself in a separate, hard-sided, locked container and pack the container inside your suitcase. If TSOs need to open your bag to inspect it, they will be able to do so with out breaking a lock on the bag.
Once the TSOs open the bag, they will see the declaration in your suitcase and will not open the locked container encasing the firearm. They will proceed to search the bag, close it, and (presuming the bag is free of prohibited items) will be able to allow it onboard your flight.
We encourage you to visit our website at www.tsa.gov for additional information about TSA. We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.
TSA Contact Center
Thank you for your email message concerning the checked baggage screening process and how it affects passengers carrying firearms in checked baggage.
On flights that originate in the U.S. passengers can transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111 under the following conditions:
. the firearm must be unloaded;
. it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage;
. it must be in a locked hard-sided container; and
. it must be declared to the airline.
If these conditions are met, the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it.
The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law to electronically screen all checked baggage that goes aboard a commercial passenger flight. If electronic screening cannot verify that a bag and its contents are safe to bring onboard the flight, TSOs will inspect the bag by hand. TSA, therefore, encourages (but does not require) passengers to keep their checked bags unlocked to facilitate the process and reduce the need to break locks.
TSA recommends that you place the locked hard-sided container with the firearm inside a suitcase or other bag before you check it with your airline. This will allow you to leave your suitcase unlocked but also to comply with the requirement that the firearm be in a locked container.
You can use a hard-sided locked suitcase as the sole container for your firearm. However, this can lead to one of the two following complications if your bag needs to be inspected by hand:
. If the TSOs can determine from the screening equipment that the bag contains a firearm, they will not open it. They will instead attempt to locate you and obtain the key or combination so that they can inspect the bag. If they cannot locate you, the bag will not be allowed onboard the aircraft.
. If the TSOs do not see that the bag contains a firearm before they open it, they may force open the lock and proceed to inspect the bag. Once the lock is forced open, the bag cannot be allowed on an aircraft until it is relocked. TSA will attempt to locate you and make suitable arrangements.
These potential inconveniences can be avoided by following TSA's recommendation that you pack your firearm by itself in a separate, hard-sided, locked container and pack the container inside your suitcase. If TSOs need to open your bag to inspect it, they will be able to do so with out breaking a lock on the bag.
Once the TSOs open the bag, they will see the declaration in your suitcase and will not open the locked container encasing the firearm. They will proceed to search the bag, close it, and (presuming the bag is free of prohibited items) will be able to allow it onboard your flight.
We encourage you to visit our website at www.tsa.gov for additional information about TSA. We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.
TSA Contact Center
I dont know about the US, but in Europe i've just emptied (well, nearly* ) my cylinders. As it's permanently attached to the rifle, it can't be removed anyway. But when i could, I just unscrewed it so it couldn't feed any air to the rifle.
There are several airguns which cannot have their cylinder's removed, and have gone in and out of the US, so i'm not sure how they handle that, but I know the owners didn't have any problems.
I also stick the rifle in "test" fire mode, as it has no safety and sometimes the cocking arm can come back in transit... and also because some customs officials like to look into the breech, which can be tricky on my rifle to do without cocking. That way they will just get a click rather than a bang no matter if cylinder has air or is attached or not.
Packing it so the serial is quickly visible is a top tip, saves rummaging, or the official being tempted to have a wave around (Northern Ireland, scoped air-rifle, mid check-in terminal)
You should go through the red channel. Your pistol may arrive separate to your normal baggage but it's been known not to happen (Gatwick is a bit random on this).
I'd mention that it's a sporting target air pistol at UK customs should see you through, especially if you have an event you can mention that you are attending.
One of the customs officials at Gatwick who handles firearms in the red channel is a shooter, so he knows his onions, and if you get him it will be smooth. There i have had my serial number recorded. Standsted and Heathrow they didn't even open the box or xray on the way back in after we mentioned we had non Fire Arms Certificate requiring pistols (probably helped because we were english). In each case it wasn't traumatic, well it wasn't after Gatwick baggage services managed to actually find our rifles of an hour of being a little unsure where they were!
Keep pellets separate. I do not bother saying they are ammunition, and they go in hold luggage as they are inert. Saves the hassle of explaining the difference to bemused check-in staff as to if they are or not and if they need to go separate.
In south africa, a finger poked into the muzzle was the expert test method to show it wasn't a cartridge firearm or .22 air rifle (which requires a license). Their fingers must be precisely calibrated as my muzzle brake is larger than .177 but not quite .22
In hungary we did all these checks in the line for the normal passnger scanning. On exit from the UK it varies from either you accompanying the item through a special scanning area, to you awaiting outside while it's scanned. It's only bangy things that require you to go through customs with them, with airguns they can be sent through and you don't have to go through until you choose to.
* the pressure increase in a hold that a cylinder will see is 1bar. Seeing as cylinders are typically rated 100bar above their working pressure (200-300 bar), and as there can be sometimes problems with seals giving up when they are depressured, I keep a smidge in the cylinder. If the plane blows up on my flight, you can blame me afterwards. With a pistol cylinder I'm not sure it would even be picked up if it was depressurised and stuck in hold baggage.
You can see what scanners can pick up below, thanks to one security dept that let me use my camera (which raises a few eyebrows when I try again and mention that someone else let me :D)
There are several airguns which cannot have their cylinder's removed, and have gone in and out of the US, so i'm not sure how they handle that, but I know the owners didn't have any problems.
I also stick the rifle in "test" fire mode, as it has no safety and sometimes the cocking arm can come back in transit... and also because some customs officials like to look into the breech, which can be tricky on my rifle to do without cocking. That way they will just get a click rather than a bang no matter if cylinder has air or is attached or not.
Packing it so the serial is quickly visible is a top tip, saves rummaging, or the official being tempted to have a wave around (Northern Ireland, scoped air-rifle, mid check-in terminal)
You should go through the red channel. Your pistol may arrive separate to your normal baggage but it's been known not to happen (Gatwick is a bit random on this).
I'd mention that it's a sporting target air pistol at UK customs should see you through, especially if you have an event you can mention that you are attending.
One of the customs officials at Gatwick who handles firearms in the red channel is a shooter, so he knows his onions, and if you get him it will be smooth. There i have had my serial number recorded. Standsted and Heathrow they didn't even open the box or xray on the way back in after we mentioned we had non Fire Arms Certificate requiring pistols (probably helped because we were english). In each case it wasn't traumatic, well it wasn't after Gatwick baggage services managed to actually find our rifles of an hour of being a little unsure where they were!
Keep pellets separate. I do not bother saying they are ammunition, and they go in hold luggage as they are inert. Saves the hassle of explaining the difference to bemused check-in staff as to if they are or not and if they need to go separate.
In south africa, a finger poked into the muzzle was the expert test method to show it wasn't a cartridge firearm or .22 air rifle (which requires a license). Their fingers must be precisely calibrated as my muzzle brake is larger than .177 but not quite .22
In hungary we did all these checks in the line for the normal passnger scanning. On exit from the UK it varies from either you accompanying the item through a special scanning area, to you awaiting outside while it's scanned. It's only bangy things that require you to go through customs with them, with airguns they can be sent through and you don't have to go through until you choose to.
* the pressure increase in a hold that a cylinder will see is 1bar. Seeing as cylinders are typically rated 100bar above their working pressure (200-300 bar), and as there can be sometimes problems with seals giving up when they are depressured, I keep a smidge in the cylinder. If the plane blows up on my flight, you can blame me afterwards. With a pistol cylinder I'm not sure it would even be picked up if it was depressurised and stuck in hold baggage.
You can see what scanners can pick up below, thanks to one security dept that let me use my camera (which raises a few eyebrows when I try again and mention that someone else let me :D)
there are two air cylinders in there...
the blue one is steel
the green walled one is ally.
As cylinders contain air even if they are "empty" i don't think it's possible to tell if one is empty by scanning. I lack a gauge on one of mine, and it's attached, so like other airgun brands, it would be impossible to tell, unless they had a specific bleed valve fitting...
the blue one is steel
the green walled one is ally.
As cylinders contain air even if they are "empty" i don't think it's possible to tell if one is empty by scanning. I lack a gauge on one of mine, and it's attached, so like other airgun brands, it would be impossible to tell, unless they had a specific bleed valve fitting...
Not that either of you would be allowed to use it anyway after those comments :)RobStubbs wrote:Yep, but on the plus side it goes out as well as in ;)Rutty wrote:Norfolk is very easy to find. There is only one road!If you find yourself in Norfolk (just up the road from Cambridge) you are welcome to shoot with our club (Norwich City Target Club) in Norwich.
Good Shooting
Rutty :)
Rob.
It's much nicer here than 'Greater Outer London' i.e. anywhere closer to the smoke than Norfolk is.
I do actually quite like Norfolk, and Suffolk, and travel there fairly often. It's a bit flat for my liking but then my own Herts isn't exactly hilly.timinder wrote: Not that either of you would be allowed to use it anyway after those comments :)
It's much nicer here than 'Greater Outer London' i.e. anywhere closer to the smoke than Norfolk is.
FYI Beckett arrived here safely and with his gun.
Rob.
Air Cylinders
You shouldn't have a problem flying out of most airports with your air cylinders as long as they are empty. There are however, a few airports that are the exceptions. Unless things have changed I believe Colorado Springs and I think one in Vermont well not allow you to fly out of their airport with air cylinders. You used to be able to fly out of Colorado Springs with the air cylinders in your gun case, but thanks to one of the competitors who was flying out of Colorado Springs decided it would be cool to release the air out of his cylinder in front of Security that changed everything. He got his cylinder out, but the noise caught the attention of the manager out of his office and nobody else was able to fly out of the airport since then. The TSA managers at these airports have decided to treat the airgun cylinders as the same category as the large oxygen tanks. I have talked to people who have tried to deal with TSA to get this issue settled and have gotten nothing but the run around, but one thing I got is that the TSA allows the TSA managers at each airport to interpret the rules as strictly as they want even despite what the current rules state.GOVTMODEL wrote:That's great information, but I don't think it covers your query about the cylinders for an airgun.
IIRC, the issue of compressed gas cylinders is separate from the carriage of firearms.
It may be best to ask a slightly different question.