Trainers for Sustained Fire?

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:17 pm

I practice for .22 shooting with a Steyr LP50 5 shot air pistol. I've been thinking about investing in a Scatt/Noptel/Rika training system, but I haven't seen any indication that they can track a sequence of shots.

Is this true? Do any of these systems work for sustained fire? If anyone has any experience with such a system, I'd be interested in your impressions of how well it works.

Thanks!

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:18 am

I don't think they can track a sequence of shots. But to be honest, if your not shooting like for like then it would be of minimal value as a training aid. Perhaps better would be dry firing (either / both guns) and concentrating on the process elements rather than any outcome - and it would save you quite a few bucks !

Rob.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:48 am

I was looking at the Noptel literature, and the Sport II claims it can support rapid fire, but they don't provide any details. For true rapid fire, I suspect you would need a separate reflector for each target, but for standard pistol it shouldn't require any special hardware. It's really an issue of how the software handles things.

http://www.noptel.fi/brochures/nts_broc ... II_ENG.pdf

I've sent a query to a dealer for more info.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:17 am

Gwhite wrote:I was looking at the Noptel literature, and the Sport II claims it can support rapid fire, but they don't provide any details.

You might want to consider the weight of the Noptel optical unit; 96g plus the weight of any hanging cable.

Unless you normally use that sort of additional weight on your LP50 which you can remove, you might find it too much of a difference from normal.

I have never really considered the use of an LP5/50 as a trainer for Standard Pistol to be effective. The dramatically reduced recoil makes it a totally different event as recoil recovery is such an important part of the "real" event.

It is such a different event that, when we were forced to change from cartridge to air in the UK, we found several high-flyers with the real event not able to shoot well with air and several mediocre cartridge shooters coming to the fore with air.

For those who managed the transfer we found that 560+ cartridge shooters were able to add approximately 10 points when they shot the event with air.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:50 am

I normally shoot with 40 grams of extra weight, and have been considering adding more. It won't be too far off if I remove those.

I agree, that shooting sustained fire IS different between cartridge & air, but I think it's still very useful. Many of the things I need to work on transfer over. I can tell if I am getting too aggressive with the trigger, and all of the issues with timing & cadence are similar. Recoil recovery is different, but such is life.

I also do coaching, and I think a trainer would be a very useful tool to add to those efforts.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:35 pm

Gwhite wrote:I agree, that shooting sustained fire IS different between cartridge & air, but I think it's still very useful. Many of the things I need to work on transfer over. I can tell if I am getting too aggressive with the trigger, and all of the issues with timing & cadence are similar. Recoil recovery is different, but such is life.

I'm of the school that believes that if you don't train using your match equipment and (to a great extent) match ammunition then you are not training to shoot Standard Pistol matches.

Timing / cadence / trigger control are all dependant on, and take their cue from, recoil recovery. That's why, when I was competing, I was approaching 100,000 rounds of Eley Pistol Match per year.

Anschutz · Post by **Anschutz** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:13 pm

Over 2000 round a week training and competition, I don't think I could afford the ammo let alone the other cost ? unless I was sponsored ?

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:23 pm

Anschutz wrote:Over 2000 round a week training and competition, I don't think I could afford the ammo let alone the other cost ? unless I was sponsored ?

For 2 years we recieved 5000 rounds of Tenex per year, which I swapped for Pistol Match. That was the extent of our sponsorship.

Anschutz · Post by **Anschutz** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:37 pm

So you had to buy the other 95,000 yourself ? wow big outlay

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:02 pm

Anschutz wrote:So you had to buy the other 95,000 yourself ? wow big outlay

I'm afraid so.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:32 pm

I'm not advocating replacing live fire with a trainer and/or air pistol. However, I do believe they can be a useful addition, especially when range access is very limited.

I already have the LP50, and I can buy a trainer for roughly the cost of 5000 rounds of Tenex. I think the trainer will allow me to get even more useful information from my air pistol shooting, and I can use it for coaching others. Buying lots of expensive ammo is useless when I can can't get to a live fire range more than once a week.