Aluminum vs. Original?

[RobinC as Guest]

Just from the picture it look a very pretty piece of work. I always appreciate good engineering but being from the UK I'm not familiar with "Jeffrey", who is he? What history does he have building championship winning rifles?
I'm also not familiar with the barrel clamping form of bedding, do any of the established manufacturers use it? If it works its a very simple and positive means of bedding.
Robin

[KennyB]

Just from the picture it look a very pretty piece of work. I always appreciate good engineering but being from the UK I'm not familiar with "Jeffrey", who is he? What history does he have building championship winning rifles?
I'm also not familiar with the barrel clamping form of bedding, do any of the established manufacturers use it? If it works its a very simple and positive means of bedding.
Robin

Hi Robin,
I too am from the UK but have found discussions about the action tuning concept on other websites.
We are lucky over here in that we can test ammo to match our barrel - rather than the US process which seems to be "buy a batch and tune the rifle to suit the ammo"

Info here:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/200 ... ral-tuner/

K.

[Guest]

I'm also not familiar with the barrel clamping form of bedding, do any of the established manufacturers use it? If it works its a very simple and positive means of bedding.
Robin

Robin,

Unique, the French company perhaps better known for pistols, used a barrel clamp system on their X-Concept Free rifle. This modle had two rubber-lined collars that bolted onto the aluminium stock. The rifles are pretty rare as Unique folded not long after, but Rajmond Debevec used an X-Concept to win gold in the 3x40 at Sydney.

Tim S
Taunton UK

[RobinC]

Thanks Kenny
I think that answers all my questions, I suppose it's a case of watch the space! Its certainly a nice piece of work and very simple, we'll only know it definately works when a few more top class people use them.

Tim, I knew Rajmond Debevec used a Unique, but not that it was barrel bedded, not surpised, he shoots standing like he's stood at the bar, pinches the pistol grip between finger and thumb, uses a post foresight, has a strange kneeling position, not exactly one of the conformers! But truly one of the greats.
Good shooting
Robin

[Jeffrey]

I have never even held an Anotomic but I think my stock has a wider range of adjustments.

So having "never held one", what are you basing your claim on?

A hunch?

I reviewed the photos of the anotomic and made a "guess-ta-mate" which is only just a tad better then a hunch.

Jeffrey

[Jeffrey]

Jeffrey,

You talk about a tuner under the action, is that what the knurled nut just in front of the trigger gaurd is for?

Once you get your final design how you want it, I think you would be able to sell quite a lot of these stocks.

Barney

Barney,
You are correct in that the knob just in front of the trigger guard is the tuner. I built 10 stocks two years ago and the tuning module worked out very well and that part of the stock will not be changed for this next build. I only modified the "tail section" (butt plate and cheek piece area) for this next build because I received calls from several top shooters who were unable to find stocks to accommodate them. Taking their suggestions into consideration I revamped the rear of the stock.

I don't shoot well enough to test my own stock so I sent one to a top level competitor who won 9 consecutive matches with it and I believe came in 5th at the Camp Perry Nationals. Another stock was used to win the Tennessee state championship. I listen very carefully to what these shooters are telling me but I don't believe the stock was the reason they did so well. I certainly think it helped from what they say but I think they just shoot really well.

Jeff

[Barney]

Jeffrey,

A top shooter isn't going to beat around the bush, he will tell you if its good or bad.
If they are saying it good but just needs a few tweeks then it must be ok.
Can't wait to see the final version go into production :-)

Barney

[Guest]

I have never even held an Anotomic but I think my stock has a wider range of adjustments.

So having "never held one", what are you basing your claim on?

A hunch?

I reviewed the photos of the anotomic and made a "guess-ta-mate" which is only just a tad better then a hunch.

Jeffrey

The prosecution rests, m'lud.

[Jeffrey]

I have never even held an Anotomic but I think my stock has a wider range of adjustments.

So having "never held one", what are you basing your claim on?

A hunch?

I reviewed the photos of the anotomic and made a "guess-ta-mate" which is only just a tad better then a hunch.

Jeffrey

The prosecution rests, m'lud.

How can you "rest" without knowing. What if I am correct? From what I can see it is an easy bet for me?

Jeffrey

[IronAir]

We are lucky over here in that we can test ammo to match our barrel - rather than the US process which seems to be "buy a batch and tune the rifle to suit the ammo"

You may consider yourself lucky, but I surely don't see it that way. It is my understanding that Eley will only let you test their most expensive ammo (Tenex), and that they do this by clamping your barreled action in a vise. How much money is normally spent trying to determine which lot of ammo shoots best in their vise? When you remove your barreled action from the Eley vise and put it back into your stock, is the ammo you picked as being the best, still going to be the best? If you go back a week later when the temperature is different, will you get the same results and pick the same lot of ammo?

No, I think I would much rather have a gun that could be tuned to the ammo instead of the other way around.

As good as the Walther and Anschutz stocks might be, they still do not have this feature, and they are still VERY expensive. I have shot the M.Werks stock, and not being a nationally ranked shooter, you probably don't really care what I have to say, but I am telling you this stock is amazing in what it can do. I don't think Jeffrey gives himself nearly enough credit for coming up with the idea and making it happen.

[Rutty]

It is my understanding that Eley will only let you test their most expensive ammo (Tenex),

Well that's their top of the range brand, it's where most shooters will look first. I have taken some of my own ammunition with me as a "control" batch, can't say that they were too happy when my R50 shot better than anything they had on offer although that was some years ago.

and that they do this by clamping your barreled action in a vise.

From the Eley website:

■Bench-rests with fixed vices and slave stocks to hold most firearm makes and models

How much money is normally spent trying to determine which lot of ammo shoots best in their vise?

Nothing, it's all in with the range hire.

When you remove your barreled action from the Eley vise and put it back into your stock, is the ammo you picked as being the best, still going to be the best?

Seems to work out for most people, otherwise they wouldn't keep going back.

If you go back a week later when the temperature is different, will you get the same results and pick the same lot of ammo?

Again I shall quote from the Eley website:

■Range is set below ground so that all variables are eliminated

I can't say that the temperature is constant throughout the year, but it certainly has a low range.

The same could be said to apply to any ammunition testing procedure, barrel tuning or whatever.

It is worthy of note that other European manufacturers offer a similar facilty to Eley. I have known UK shooter travel to Germany to use the RWS test range.

By offering their top of the range product the manufacturer is giving you access to a number of batches that will provide the highest probability of the customer finding the batch that performs best in their rifle. It may be that a batch from another part of the product range might perform better but the probability is that you would have to shoot a much larger number of batches to find it. Chance effects do occur, the best ammunition I have ever had was a batch of Eley Match. However, over the years I have had had many more batches of Tenex or R50 that were better performers than Eley Match.

Rutty

[/quote]

[KennyB]

We are lucky over here in that we can test ammo to match our barrel - rather than the US process which seems to be "buy a batch and tune the rifle to suit the ammo"

You may consider yourself lucky, but I surely don't see it that way.

Sorry, there is a slight tinge of irony in my comment which doesn't translate well - I'm very aware of (and have been quite vocal about) the issues with the process of batch testing ammo as done by Eley and others.
However, right or wrong, over here it IS the way most people do things and is probably why barrel tuners and other vibration controlling gizmo's haven't been widely adopted - yet.
Tuning is mostly restricted to playing with the torque of your bedding bolts.
Unfortunately we aren't blessed with an abundance of custom barrel makers and innovative gunsmiths - so we concentrate on the ammo.

I find the idea of action tuning a very interesting one and I'll be keenly following the progress of Jeffrey's stock.

K.

[jamesestormmd@yahoo.com]

I am very tall and most stocks do not fit me. When I saw a picture of the Anschutz Alu I was excited and could barely wait to try one. It was a disappointment in that it was not nearly as universally adjustable
as I had imagined. For example, if I tried to move the grip rearward so that I could properly place the tip of my trigger finger on the trigger, there was not enough room between the grip and the stock for the rest of my hand. I tried the Stopper and while it was an improvement, I eventually opted to make my own stock, using Home Depot oak (available, not too expensive, and relatively easy to work), my table saw, and West system epoxy glue for the prototype. After many prototypes, and a great deal of sawdust and scrap oak, I think I have found a suitable design, thanks in part to much sage critiquing by fellow shooters. Time will tell if it is really as superior as I feel it is now. Ultimately equipment is far less important than practice.

[tsokasn]

Can you post any pictures?