I am looking for a decent target gun for my wife. It seems that the AW 93 is too expensive, the High Standard Victor 10X has serious ammunition feeding problems. That leaves the S&W Mod 41 ( either 5-1/2" or 7" barrel) , Ruger Mark II or III Target, or the Hamerli Trailside or XEsse. The last three all need a trigger job to bring them up to target quality standards.
I tend to lean towards the Hamerli XEsse. It looks like it is well balanced and is a cheap knockoff of their famous 208. The Ruger I heard is an equal if the trigger is replaced, but it's low price makes me wonder what I am missing. The Smith&Wesson 41, too, needs a trigger job to make it perform up to standards. I've only shot a Mod 41, so all this is subjective oppinion. Unfortunately, you can't shoot a gun before you buy it. Your input would be very helpful.
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Comparison of Bulls-eye target guns
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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visitor
How about a Benelli MP95 - under $1000 from Larry's? You get a simpler grip and trigger module, but it's still miles ahead of anything you listed. If you're feeling flush a Benelli MP95 has all the goodies for about $1500. Either way you'll never need a trigger job, magazine tuning or any of the stuff that B-E shooters seem to live for.
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Belly
No offense, but it sounds as though you're going from rumors you've read on the internet. I can sympathize, because it's very difficult to get accurate information on match pistols from forums and such.
Some other options..
IZH 35M - a proper match pistol, the downside is that they are getting expensive, and there's no domestic support.
Marvel 1911 Conversion, the Marvel Precision version - you need a 1911 lower for these.
Also don't throw out the High Standards just yet. Some do have feeding issues, but I wouldn't say that this is definitive of the pistol If you find one that's reliable, you've got a very good gun. The real downside IMO is that they've gotten expensive, and there's very limited support for them.
The Xesse has also gotten much too expensive, for what it is, IMO. I'd be sure to shoot one before committing to buy.
Another approach would be to look for 2nd hand standard pistols, through the B/S/T forum. You can often get a good deal on a well cared for match pistol.
good luck
Some other options..
IZH 35M - a proper match pistol, the downside is that they are getting expensive, and there's no domestic support.
Marvel 1911 Conversion, the Marvel Precision version - you need a 1911 lower for these.
Also don't throw out the High Standards just yet. Some do have feeding issues, but I wouldn't say that this is definitive of the pistol If you find one that's reliable, you've got a very good gun. The real downside IMO is that they've gotten expensive, and there's very limited support for them.
The Xesse has also gotten much too expensive, for what it is, IMO. I'd be sure to shoot one before committing to buy.
Another approach would be to look for 2nd hand standard pistols, through the B/S/T forum. You can often get a good deal on a well cared for match pistol.
good luck
I have a S&W41 I've been shooting for 35 years. The trigger is easy to adjust. It is as accurate as my Free pistol from a Ransom Rest. You have the easy option of long or short barrels (needed to shoot International Pistol).
The old High Standard Victors were the best in their day. You can buy one or the M41 for $600-$700 used (broken in, possibly tweaked).
Having a trigger job on either is cheap and easy (if needed).
The Ruger would definately need a trigger job, but would not be as "nice" as the above.
All these options would be relatively cheap.
The old High Standard Victors were the best in their day. You can buy one or the M41 for $600-$700 used (broken in, possibly tweaked).
Having a trigger job on either is cheap and easy (if needed).
The Ruger would definately need a trigger job, but would not be as "nice" as the above.
All these options would be relatively cheap.
One thing that you might consider is weight, especially if your wife is going to mount a tube-type red dot on the pistol. If she is starting out, it might discourage her to have a heavy pistol. The Trailside and Marvel Conversions aren't heavy. You might want to have her consider a Walther, as well, but I'm not sure of the weight of the Walther.
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antoniscott
Comparing Bulls-eye pistols
Thanks for the info. Regarding the Benelli MP95. How long is the barrel, and is it good for 50 yards ? Does anyone out there shoot a Hammerli XESSE or XEsse sport ? I have heard stories about ammuntion feeding issues. I was considering using CCI Standard Velocity or Federal Match ammo, but I heard it may not work. Using Lapua at $1 a shot to practice does not make good sense.
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My comparisons Trailside, 95E and 35M
I have a trailside, izh 35m and benelli 95. All of them bought used between 400 and 500 dollars. Some opinion below from a newbie shooter.
Trailside comments. For lightweight the trailside is the best. If you can get a set of the ergomonic grips they felt really great to me. Mine shoots an inch something groups at 50 off a bag. I think if I shot it off bags more often I could get better. As for ammo cci std vel works good but the SK or Wolf feeds much better. The aguila also feeds fine but I have less expereince with it. Trailsides have the magazine spring issue that over time will no longer hold the slide open after all shots are fired. The Larry Carter trigger job a friend has on his trailside is a worthwhile improvement IMO. I am keeping this one primarily for my wife and son to shoot because of the weight.
Benelli comments. Great accuracy best of the three in shooting off a bag but all three accurate enough for my skill level, not ammo picky but I feel I need to try more than just cci. Mine however has a very tight chamber that you need to clean after 40 to 50 shots or the rounds won't fit. A quick chamber brushing and you are back in business. Stock grips are good but a bit short for large hands. I put a large rink on recently and now I might go back to shooting this pistol. Trigger is good but takes time to get use to it as it does not break as crisp at the trailside or izh 35m. I hope to someday try the model 90 trigger as it can be swapped with the 95 trigger group.
Izh35m comments. This hase been the pistol I choose over the other 2 for the past year. Crisp trigger, feels better in sustained fire (low recoil). I bought a second one to shoot iron sights in international pistol. I choose this pistol over the others this past year because I was shooting better 50 yard groups with it. Mostly because of the trigger. Feeding has not been perfect. CCI was feeding very well but lately not so good. Limited amouts of aquila, sk and wolf have fed perfect. Requires more effort to clean than the others.
Trailside comments. For lightweight the trailside is the best. If you can get a set of the ergomonic grips they felt really great to me. Mine shoots an inch something groups at 50 off a bag. I think if I shot it off bags more often I could get better. As for ammo cci std vel works good but the SK or Wolf feeds much better. The aguila also feeds fine but I have less expereince with it. Trailsides have the magazine spring issue that over time will no longer hold the slide open after all shots are fired. The Larry Carter trigger job a friend has on his trailside is a worthwhile improvement IMO. I am keeping this one primarily for my wife and son to shoot because of the weight.
Benelli comments. Great accuracy best of the three in shooting off a bag but all three accurate enough for my skill level, not ammo picky but I feel I need to try more than just cci. Mine however has a very tight chamber that you need to clean after 40 to 50 shots or the rounds won't fit. A quick chamber brushing and you are back in business. Stock grips are good but a bit short for large hands. I put a large rink on recently and now I might go back to shooting this pistol. Trigger is good but takes time to get use to it as it does not break as crisp at the trailside or izh 35m. I hope to someday try the model 90 trigger as it can be swapped with the 95 trigger group.
Izh35m comments. This hase been the pistol I choose over the other 2 for the past year. Crisp trigger, feels better in sustained fire (low recoil). I bought a second one to shoot iron sights in international pistol. I choose this pistol over the others this past year because I was shooting better 50 yard groups with it. Mostly because of the trigger. Feeding has not been perfect. CCI was feeding very well but lately not so good. Limited amouts of aquila, sk and wolf have fed perfect. Requires more effort to clean than the others.
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Guest
Selecting a target .22
Thanks for all this info. It is helpful but also makes the decision more difficult. It would be great to be able to have all these guns in front of me to try the feel of each one, but I know that isn't going to happen.
A friend of mine won a state championship with a Ruger Mark II ( with a trigger job) and it was the least expensive of all of them. It fed any ammo, had the least weight , was the lowest price, and I actually preferred the grip angle to the Mod. 41. I just figured that such an inexpensive gun would not be that good. It's great to be proved wrong.
I was told about Volquartsen triggers and when I looked them up I saw that they also make complete guns, from simple to fancy. I think that, at this point, it might be worthwhile to invest in a Ruger Mark III, and add a trigger job. I see Volquartsen sells barrels for the Ruger. How much better are they than the factory Ruger barrels ? Does anyone have experience with them ?
This Forum is fantastic !!! It seems that the members are not impressed by factory advertised statistics, just results !!!!!!
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A friend of mine won a state championship with a Ruger Mark II ( with a trigger job) and it was the least expensive of all of them. It fed any ammo, had the least weight , was the lowest price, and I actually preferred the grip angle to the Mod. 41. I just figured that such an inexpensive gun would not be that good. It's great to be proved wrong.
I was told about Volquartsen triggers and when I looked them up I saw that they also make complete guns, from simple to fancy. I think that, at this point, it might be worthwhile to invest in a Ruger Mark III, and add a trigger job. I see Volquartsen sells barrels for the Ruger. How much better are they than the factory Ruger barrels ? Does anyone have experience with them ?
This Forum is fantastic !!! It seems that the members are not impressed by factory advertised statistics, just results !!!!!!
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feeding with H S
I think you got the wrong info about H S. The only problem with feeding is normially with the clips and they can be adjusted. I won the state match last year in 22 with a H S tournament
OK, my $0.02....
High Standards can be grouped into 3 different groups.
1. Modern Texas guns. Many people scream "RUN AWAY!" due to quality control issues. Some people swear they're great now. The 10X you referenced would probably be in this group.
2. Old "Military Grip" High Standards (made in Connecticut). Same (OK, similar) grip angle as S&W M41. The "Victor" referred to above is in this group. I've got one and it feels heavy in my hand. Very accurate and never a problem.
3. Old "slant grip" High Standards (pre-1965 or so). I love these. Excellent quality, and perfectly reliable (in my experience) with factory magazines. Aftermarket magazines can apparently have some feeding issues. The slant grip guns are generally 45+ years old, so there's the potential for wear and tear to take a toll. These have the pretty much the same grip angle as the Ruger MkII.
I've never had a Ruger MkIII, but my first gun was a MkII. You can get a big improvement in the trigger just by installing the Volquartsen sear (about $20 plus some time and patience).
I wouldn't have any qualms at all about buying a used MkII (200-275?) or an old slant-grip High Standard (300 - 500 if you're patient). Apparently some of the military grip High Standards (CT) developed a problem with the frame cracking...never seen one that cracked, but read about it on the internet.
High Standards can be grouped into 3 different groups.
1. Modern Texas guns. Many people scream "RUN AWAY!" due to quality control issues. Some people swear they're great now. The 10X you referenced would probably be in this group.
2. Old "Military Grip" High Standards (made in Connecticut). Same (OK, similar) grip angle as S&W M41. The "Victor" referred to above is in this group. I've got one and it feels heavy in my hand. Very accurate and never a problem.
3. Old "slant grip" High Standards (pre-1965 or so). I love these. Excellent quality, and perfectly reliable (in my experience) with factory magazines. Aftermarket magazines can apparently have some feeding issues. The slant grip guns are generally 45+ years old, so there's the potential for wear and tear to take a toll. These have the pretty much the same grip angle as the Ruger MkII.
I've never had a Ruger MkIII, but my first gun was a MkII. You can get a big improvement in the trigger just by installing the Volquartsen sear (about $20 plus some time and patience).
I wouldn't have any qualms at all about buying a used MkII (200-275?) or an old slant-grip High Standard (300 - 500 if you're patient). Apparently some of the military grip High Standards (CT) developed a problem with the frame cracking...never seen one that cracked, but read about it on the internet.
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Guest
My first bullseye 22 was a mkii competition model. I paid about $275 for it, installed an ultradot, and never made any upgrades to it. I always placed well, averaging 840-855 for only shooting a little over a year. Besides having not customizing it, the only negative thing I can say about it,is that it is noticeably heavier than many pistols available. I sold it and bought a benelli mp95. I felt I make great choice.
All of the guns mentioned above are accurate enough for 50 yards. The difference when choosing amounts to grip angle and how good the trigger is or can be made to be. Some also come stock with exotic grips and I think it is pretty important to at least hold if not try what you decide to buy. Weight might be another factor as there is quite a difference in those mentioned. Also some of the guns made for standard pistol like the Benellis may or may not work with a scope because the ejector is the magazine itself and it won't throw an empty the same way every time. Generally at the very least, it is necessary to use the tallest rings you can find for them.
If you are looking for a light weight gun for someone with small hands, you might want to consider a Ruger 22/45. You can get a new one and a trigger job for my guess is $400 or so, and magazines and such are cheap and easily available.
I have one for my son and although the grip's too thin for me, it's a nice gun to shoot (and they just came out with a wood grip paneled model...)
Steve.
I have one for my son and although the grip's too thin for me, it's a nice gun to shoot (and they just came out with a wood grip paneled model...)
Steve.