So I've decided on purchasing a Celestron Ultima spotting scope. My dilemma is whether to get the 18-55x 65mm or the 22-60x 80mm. I shoot NRA Smallbore competitions at 50yds and 100yds, and occasionally get out the A-17s at 50ft. I know the 65mm is plenty for 50yds, but I'm concerned about 100 yds. I'm also concerned as to whether the 80mm would wobble, or possibly fall over on my Ray-Vin Eclipse F-stand...I don't have a weight on it. Any thoughts or experiences with Celestron scopes?
Please don't mention Kowas. ;-)
-Abi
Spotting Scope
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
I do not have much direct experience the Celestron Spotting Scopes and my experience with their astronomical scopes is a little out of date.
Consider that most of the time we shoot smallbore at 100 yds the lighting is pretty decent. While the extra light gathering of 80mm will lead to a brighter image so long as the optics are pretty good (Celestron usually makes pretty good stuff) you should be able to see fine with the 65mm front end.
I shot with a 60mm Bushnell for 20 years+ until my father bought me a updated scope with 72mm front end. The new scope is clearer but honestly I am not sure I see anything with the new that I could not with the old.
Not familiar with your scope stand, if you are shooting prone you would probably be fine with either scope and no counter weight. If you are shooting position then the 65mm would be courting disaster the 80mm would be holding the door open for it.
Overall, unless you expect to be shooting a lot in crappy conditions you will probably be fine with the 18-55X 65mm. Being something a student of optics I also would not expect real good performance much past say the 35X or so power level. That goes for either scope but more for the smaller front end. The image just gets too dark.
'Dude
Consider that most of the time we shoot smallbore at 100 yds the lighting is pretty decent. While the extra light gathering of 80mm will lead to a brighter image so long as the optics are pretty good (Celestron usually makes pretty good stuff) you should be able to see fine with the 65mm front end.
I shot with a 60mm Bushnell for 20 years+ until my father bought me a updated scope with 72mm front end. The new scope is clearer but honestly I am not sure I see anything with the new that I could not with the old.
Not familiar with your scope stand, if you are shooting prone you would probably be fine with either scope and no counter weight. If you are shooting position then the 65mm would be courting disaster the 80mm would be holding the door open for it.
Overall, unless you expect to be shooting a lot in crappy conditions you will probably be fine with the 18-55X 65mm. Being something a student of optics I also would not expect real good performance much past say the 35X or so power level. That goes for either scope but more for the smaller front end. The image just gets too dark.
'Dude
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Guest
Dude,
Thanks for replying.
So far, 2 out of 3 ranges I have shot at have had the sun pointed at the shooter, not at the target (facing the wrong way?). At my home range I have a horrible time seeing shots at 100yds with my current cheapo 15-45x 60mm scope. This is where I was wondering if the 80mm would allow a better picture...or I should say, a difference in picture worth paying $40 more for and gaining a pound in equipment weight.
Perhaps the better quality 65mm scope would be much better than my current one, and work fine, as you suggest. It would also be easier to carry around and adjust while on the stand.
I do shoot 3-position, and the scope stand I use is a strange mix of tripod and bipod. It has two long feet, and a third nub. This means it is stable in one direction, but can tip backwards easily, and does not have room underneath to attach one of the stand weights sold at CC and CSS. I have considered dropping a few baseball bat weights onto it to add bottom weight...I think I would cry if my scope fell over and broke.
-Abi
Thanks for replying.
So far, 2 out of 3 ranges I have shot at have had the sun pointed at the shooter, not at the target (facing the wrong way?). At my home range I have a horrible time seeing shots at 100yds with my current cheapo 15-45x 60mm scope. This is where I was wondering if the 80mm would allow a better picture...or I should say, a difference in picture worth paying $40 more for and gaining a pound in equipment weight.
Perhaps the better quality 65mm scope would be much better than my current one, and work fine, as you suggest. It would also be easier to carry around and adjust while on the stand.
I do shoot 3-position, and the scope stand I use is a strange mix of tripod and bipod. It has two long feet, and a third nub. This means it is stable in one direction, but can tip backwards easily, and does not have room underneath to attach one of the stand weights sold at CC and CSS. I have considered dropping a few baseball bat weights onto it to add bottom weight...I think I would cry if my scope fell over and broke.
-Abi
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westerngriz
sorry but i am going to mention Kowas ;)
I have a kowa with a 27 LER eyepiece. and i still have problems seeing the holes at 100 when the mirage is heavy.
The scope that i would recommend if you would like to save money is a Konus scope. they are just as clear and sharp as kowas but for way less money. I have both. i prefer the kowa because the eyepiece. but thats the only reason.
matt
I have a kowa with a 27 LER eyepiece. and i still have problems seeing the holes at 100 when the mirage is heavy.
The scope that i would recommend if you would like to save money is a Konus scope. they are just as clear and sharp as kowas but for way less money. I have both. i prefer the kowa because the eyepiece. but thats the only reason.
matt
Looked up the Ray Vin stand, really not all that different in concept from the old Freeland scope stand. You get the three points of the tripod it is just a little odd the way you get there. Clears the corner of the mat. I consider the lack of a counterweight a serious deficiency in the design. Unfortunate at the rest of it looks like a pretty quality unit. Today when the stand seller had no idea how large (80+mm front end) a scope is going to out there the ability to add a counter weight under the support rod seems almost like a no brainer. Hate to beat up on your stand too much but you should really study it and see what you can to add some counterweight if you are going to be shooting 3p or AR in offhand. (I have seen scopes go over... it ain't pretty.)
Scopes are one of those places where to a degree you get what you pay for. There are some inexpensive spotting scopes out there, they will go 20-60X or so and cost around $60 bucks. Typically they do not work very well except on the lowest power settings. My sense is you are looking a the Celestron Ultima 65. A ~$150 list scope that can be had for ~$120 if you shop around. Based on the name and price it is likely a respectable unit. Will you be able to pick out bullet holes at 100 yards in heavy mirage 20 minutes after a thunderstorm in late July, well maybe not but should be for most conditions this should work OK.
You can keep increasing the difficulty to the point where I would need a huge front lens or multiple scopes and a computer to employ synthetic aperature techniques. Perhaps I am old but if the conditions get just so poor I will eventually pack up the gear and head home.
You said your ranges face south? Yikes!! To combat that you will want to have a sunshield on the front. Even if it is at an angle, sun being cast directly on the objective (front) lens will cause all kinds of problems with haze and flair.
Good Luck
'Dude
Scopes are one of those places where to a degree you get what you pay for. There are some inexpensive spotting scopes out there, they will go 20-60X or so and cost around $60 bucks. Typically they do not work very well except on the lowest power settings. My sense is you are looking a the Celestron Ultima 65. A ~$150 list scope that can be had for ~$120 if you shop around. Based on the name and price it is likely a respectable unit. Will you be able to pick out bullet holes at 100 yards in heavy mirage 20 minutes after a thunderstorm in late July, well maybe not but should be for most conditions this should work OK.
You can keep increasing the difficulty to the point where I would need a huge front lens or multiple scopes and a computer to employ synthetic aperature techniques. Perhaps I am old but if the conditions get just so poor I will eventually pack up the gear and head home.
You said your ranges face south? Yikes!! To combat that you will want to have a sunshield on the front. Even if it is at an angle, sun being cast directly on the objective (front) lens will cause all kinds of problems with haze and flair.
Good Luck
'Dude
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Guest
So after some inspection of my scope stand-which otherwise is quite appealing and easy to use- I think I have the weight problem fixed. Since I can't attach a weight to the bottom, a got some baseball bat weights and dropped them down the rod onto the top of the base. Nice blue donuts. I'll see how this works...
Champion Shooter's Supply has "online coupons" for the Celestron scopes "for a limited time"...and they come with a free softcase to use on the scope stand, which otherwise would cost another $27 for other brands....I could get the Celestron 80mm for the same price as the 65mm Konus, but then I'd have to get a softcase for the Konus...and I'm on a minimum-wage student budget.
I'm gonna go for the 65mm and make a sunshade for it. For some reason I had not thought of that- I have sunshades for my sights and my head, but I forgot the scope! I'm sure I can rig something up easily, and I bet that will help. We spend more time shooting at 50yds than 100yds anyways, and yeah, if the conditions get that bad, its time to go home.
Thanks for assisting me in this decision.
-Abi
Champion Shooter's Supply has "online coupons" for the Celestron scopes "for a limited time"...and they come with a free softcase to use on the scope stand, which otherwise would cost another $27 for other brands....I could get the Celestron 80mm for the same price as the 65mm Konus, but then I'd have to get a softcase for the Konus...and I'm on a minimum-wage student budget.
I'm gonna go for the 65mm and make a sunshade for it. For some reason I had not thought of that- I have sunshades for my sights and my head, but I forgot the scope! I'm sure I can rig something up easily, and I bet that will help. We spend more time shooting at 50yds than 100yds anyways, and yeah, if the conditions get that bad, its time to go home.
Thanks for assisting me in this decision.
-Abi
Abi-
When you said "don't mention Kowas" I figured budget was a somewhat limiting resource. As I am sure you are aware there are some scopes out there, especially in bird watching community, with breathtaking clarity and color resolution. The price for these units is also pretty breathtaking. (If you want to drop your teeth check out some of the high end Swarovski scopes... they make the Kowas look cheap.)
For where you are and what you are doing you should find a well made scope with a 65mm front end. The other nice thing is that if take care of it scopes don't really wear out so after a while when you have all the rest of your kit in good shape, if you decide you need something else a used scope is pretty easy to sell so you can get some cash out of it.
WRT sunshades, regardless of what brand scope you have, if you ever start seeing weird stuff in your scope look to see if light is being cast directly on the objective of the scope. This goes for ANY optical instrument.
Nice solution with the bat weights
Good Luck,
'Dude
When you said "don't mention Kowas" I figured budget was a somewhat limiting resource. As I am sure you are aware there are some scopes out there, especially in bird watching community, with breathtaking clarity and color resolution. The price for these units is also pretty breathtaking. (If you want to drop your teeth check out some of the high end Swarovski scopes... they make the Kowas look cheap.)
For where you are and what you are doing you should find a well made scope with a 65mm front end. The other nice thing is that if take care of it scopes don't really wear out so after a while when you have all the rest of your kit in good shape, if you decide you need something else a used scope is pretty easy to sell so you can get some cash out of it.
WRT sunshades, regardless of what brand scope you have, if you ever start seeing weird stuff in your scope look to see if light is being cast directly on the objective of the scope. This goes for ANY optical instrument.
Nice solution with the bat weights
Good Luck,
'Dude
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ShooterfromPR
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:37 pm
Celestron Ultima
I had the Celestron Ultima in 80mm. It's a fine scope for the money. Clear, nice image and excelent resolution. But it is big. Doesn't lends itself for travel. I would go for the 65mm.
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westerngriz
http://www.jarheadtop.com/KONUS.htm
This is a link to the Konus scope I was talking about. i think chaps choice sells them as well.
Matt
This is a link to the Konus scope I was talking about. i think chaps choice sells them as well.
Matt
I have the Celestron 80 and it is excellent. I'm glad I got the 80 instead of the 65. I've looked through Kowa's and other scopes and don't see anything better than my Celestron with the exception of eye relief. The Kowa has longer eye relief but I have not felt hampered in any way with my 80. I can see .17 cal holes at 100 yds.