SIG/SAUER P-230 380cal. Questions

[ebrem]

Hello

I am not sure if this is the right forum to ask this but I will go ahead.

I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on this particular gun the SIG/SAUER p230 380. cal..
I am interested as to the function, dependability, and size to be use as a concealed carry gun. I have done some reading on this SIG and it sounds pretty impressive but I would like some first hand opinions.

Thanks in Advance.

[Richard H]

Well this is the wrong forum I'm sure some others will chime in, but that said Sig makes very nice pistols. Personally I'd go for one of the P239's either in 9mm or 40 S&W not a big fan of .380ACP. They even have a very nice CCW .45's in the P220 Compact. Unless you're really small I think the P239's are a better choice the P238 is really small and it does make it hard to shoot really well if you have big (even normal) man hands. The P239 it's narrow and was designed for CCW, so it's should be easy to carry for an average size person. As for reliability, Sig's are very reliable and all their models are relatively equal reliability wise. There's also a great choice of 9mm and 40 S&W ammunition around too.

[compscotty]

i personnally carry a sig p230 here in Nevada and i love it. It's also extremely accurate.

[ssauer2004]

You need to be more specific regarding how you are going to carry this pistol. During the warmer months I carry a Ruger LCP. I have a pocket holster that works well. When it's warm outside, you don't want to be wearing mutiple shirts to conceal your handgun.

In the winter months when you can wear a couple of shirts or a jacket, I wouldn't carry anything but a Glock. You can't beat them. They will fire every time you pull the trigger in any condition. The whole point of concealed carry is personal protection, you want the reliability. I would recommend the model 19 9mm.

[plinker]

Hello

I am not sure if this is the right forum to ask this but I will go ahead.

I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on this particular gun the SIG/SAUER p230 380. cal..
I am interested as to the function, dependability, and size to be use as a concealed carry gun. I have done some reading on this SIG and it sounds pretty impressive but I would like some first hand opinions.

Thanks in Advance.

I bought one of these Sigs before the Brady bill went into effect, and I really like the gun. Fits my little hand like a glove and it always fires reliably for me.
Now for the drawbacks - .380 ammo is still a little hard to find around here and when I can find it, it usually has a ridiculous price attached to it. I'm hoping that will change as supplies improve. I've been told that this gun lacks a lot of knockdown power. I think at close range it will still serve it's function. I did a little distance test on it a few weeks back and it's very accurate at 10-25 feet, but beyond that, the accuracy drops considerably. At 50 feet, I felt lucky to get anything on the paper! Most self-defense situation occur at the 5-10 foot range, so I think it still has value.
A lot of my friends carry a bigger, more powerful gun, but they usually consider these little .380's as backup guns. I think that's a perfect use for it!

[ssauer2004]

A lot of people have a problem with smaller caliber guns and knockdown power. I personally wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .380. I also wouldn't carry anything bigger than a 9mm. Believe me, you shoot somebody in the chest with three .380 rounds and they'll feel it.

Also, don't be concerned with distances further than twenty feet. The average police shooting is three yards and three rounds. I would be more concerned with my draw than a fifty foot shot. If you shoot a guy with a knife at fifty feet, it's time to call your lawyer, because you're going to jail. Proper clearing techniques of a residence are more important than long distance accuracy.

[Richard H]

A lot of people have a problem with smaller caliber guns and knockdown power. I personally wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .380. I also wouldn't carry anything bigger than a 9mm. Believe me, you shoot somebody in the chest with three .380 rounds and they'll feel it.

Also, don't be concerned with distances further than twenty feet. The average police shooting is three yards and three rounds. I would be more concerned with my draw than a fifty foot shot. If you shoot a guy with a knife at fifty feet, it's time to call your lawyer, because you're going to jail. Proper clearing techniques of a residence are more important than long distance accuracy.

I agree with that but here's another fact a 50% (average of day/night) hit ratio is pretty good even for a police officer in such situations , so I wouldn't count on three shoots to the center of mass either. It's really about a balance of stopping power and the ability to accurately place the shots, which will be different for everyone. Some stronger individual that shoot larger calibers a lot ( I mean a lot) may have no problem accurately shooting a .45 or 10mm, another person may only be able to do the same with a .380.

Here's an interesting article on officer involved shootings http://www.policeone.com/officer-shooti ... shootings/

The other difference between police shootings and most self defence shootings is that officers for the most part are at least semi aware of the situation they are getting into and not always totally surprised.

[Jose Rossy]

A lot of people have a problem with smaller caliber guns and knockdown power. I personally wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .380. I also wouldn't carry anything bigger than a 9mm. Believe me, you shoot somebody in the chest with three .380 rounds and they'll feel it.

Also, don't be concerned with distances further than twenty feet. The average police shooting is three yards and three rounds. I would be more concerned with my draw than a fifty foot shot. If you shoot a guy with a knife at fifty feet, it's time to call your lawyer, because you're going to jail. Proper clearing techniques of a residence are more important than long distance accuracy.

Legal advice worth what you pay for it.

[ssauer2004]

A lot of people have a problem with smaller caliber guns and knockdown power. I personally wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .380. I also wouldn't carry anything bigger than a 9mm. Believe me, you shoot somebody in the chest with three .380 rounds and they'll feel it.

Also, don't be concerned with distances further than twenty feet. The average police shooting is three yards and three rounds. I would be more concerned with my draw than a fifty foot shot. If you shoot a guy with a knife at fifty feet, it's time to call your lawyer, because you're going to jail. Proper clearing techniques of a residence are more important than long distance accuracy.

I agree with that but here's another fact a 50% (average of day/night) hit ratio is pretty good even for a police officer in such situations , so I wouldn't count on three shoots to the center of mass either. It's really about a balance of stopping power and the ability to accurately place the shots, which will be different for everyone. Some stronger individual that shoot larger calibers a lot ( I mean a lot) may have no problem accurately shooting a .45 or 10mm, another person may only be able to do the same with a .380.

Here's an interesting article on officer involved shootings http://www.policeone.com/officer-shooti ... shootings/

The other difference between police shootings and most self defence shootings is that officers for the most part are at least semi aware of the situation they are getting into and not always totally surprised.

When I said the average police involved shooting averages three rounds, I shouldn't have implied that all rounds fired were winners. My point was that three rounds could be all that you get off.

[ssauer2004]

A lot of people have a problem with smaller caliber guns and knockdown power. I personally wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .380. I also wouldn't carry anything bigger than a 9mm. Believe me, you shoot somebody in the chest with three .380 rounds and they'll feel it.

Also, don't be concerned with distances further than twenty feet. The average police shooting is three yards and three rounds. I would be more concerned with my draw than a fifty foot shot. If you shoot a guy with a knife at fifty feet, it's time to call your lawyer, because you're going to jail. Proper clearing techniques of a residence are more important than long distance accuracy.

Legal advice worth what you pay for it.

I'm not sure how to interpret your reply. If it's a dig at my lawyer comment, take a look at where the original poster lives, New York. A lot of burden of proof regarding firearms in a big bad blue state.

[weilers]

SSauer, I think you're right on.

Ebrem, your profile on the side says you're in New York. I'm no expert, but as I remember, New York State has some of the strangest CCW laws on the books in America. I know for sure that it's the only state permit that isn't good in the entire state. Since the permit is a discretionary issue, you're going have to jump through so many hoops that you feel like you're working for Ringling Brothers, one of which is going to be a qualification with the weapon. Most states with shall-issue permitting require something along the lines of an NRA Pistol Basic course and qualification at no more than seven yards. Yours will probably be a little more detailed than that.

My suggestion to you is that, before you buy a weapon for concealed carry, I'd get both a copy of the state's gun-related statutes and I'd lawyer up. Most states have a clearly defined engagement as to when, where, and why you can draw your weapon, generally the defense of yourself, others, and personal property. In New York, the rules of engagement are probably very, very narrow.

My guess is that, in NY State, they will require much, much more from you as the permit holder than most shall-issue states. There's probably an approved list of firearms and/or calibers in some county. Carry something that the issuing department doesn't like and you might as well not have the license.

Now that I've said that, these are a few suggestions from a non-brand biased pistol instructor:

1. If you have some experience with a specific type of handgun action (pistol with an external slide release, revolver w/push-type release, etc.), then you really should carry a firearm with that type of action. For example, if you don't have much (or any) experience carrying a firearm that has a decocking lever, the time you need the weapon to work the most isn't a good place to learn.

2. Good guns don't start getting good until the second thousand rounds. Unless it's some kind of rare antique, good guns are meant to be shot. This means shooting. Whether it's January or July, it's always shooting weather.

3. The shooting qualification for the carry permit isn't the end of your shooting, it's the beginning. This means at least once a month, you need to hit the range. The range time needs to absolutely be quality time. From the time you pull up until the time you are finished your first set, it means no shooting kit, no extra magazines, just you, a target, and the weapon, carried into the shooting gallery in the EXACT same manner you will be carrying it. You need to be able to STOP that target with the first shot. Bringing in a range bag, extra magazines, and boxes of practice ammo have nothing to do with saving your life. Like everything else, there's time for that later.

4. Carrying a gun isn't a right, it's not a privlege, it's a lifestyle. It's better than an AMEX card; once you get the permit, you're never going to leave home without it. Wife says to goto the grocery store for eggs and milk, you're going armed. Need gas for the mower, you're going armed. Niece's wedding, you're going armed. Your entire wardrobe needs to be compatible with the fact that you will, from now on, be concealing a firearm to save your life.

5. Your life, and the lives of your friends and family aren't subject to experimentation. Experimental designs, flashy posters, and 'cool looking' sell guns, they don't necessarily save lives. If a base design or any of its derivatives have been recalled, that's not the gun for you.

6. The very, very worst thing that can happen to you isn't death, it's hearing your lawyer say that grand jury determined it wasn't justifiable. At that point, your very best case scenario is that you're acquitted and you're able to settle with the 'victim's' family for right around everything that you own. You need to treat each and every action involving you and a firearm as if you're going to have to repeat it again and again, in front of a room of 50 or so people, in two years.

At the end of the day, ebrem, you're going to have to choose a firearm that one day you're going to use to save your own life. That's a decision that is light-years beyond choosing the color and ring thickness of a sight insert or good quality sling. Unlike most of the others posting on here, once upon a time I've had to save my life and the lives of others with a firearm. In my case, I had eight other people who saw the same thing I did.

I've shared my own pearls of wisdom based on my experience. There are people who will swear by just about every brand of firearm and accessory on the market today. I personally wouldn't carry anything that couldn't deliver at least a 124 grain round with 225 ft/lbs of energy out of the muzzle less than five times. If the weapon cannot do that, it cannot really stop a full-size adult wearing the 1/4 inch of clothing that we wear in the Northeast in February, especially when he's intent on taking your life. Again, don't experiment and don't budget when it comes to saving your own life.