question about competition rifles

[Doyle]

I'm thinking about shooting competitions this summer but don't yet own a rifle. I want to shoot several different styles prone, 3P, and summer biathlon (winter biathlon later in the year when it snows).

I realize that prone, 3P, and biathlon use different types of rifles but I'd like to use one rifle for all three competitions. For example is it legal (rulewise to use the following:
* prone rifle in 3P and biathlon?
* 3P rifle in prone and biathlon?
* biathlon rifle in prone and 3P?

I've watched prone, 3P, and biathlon competitions but never tried it for myself. Before I specializing in one shooting discipline I want to try shooting multiple events for a year and see which one I like best from a competitor perspective.

TIA

[Guest]

You can use the same rifle for 3P and Prone. But I think you would run into a problem using the same rifle for Biathlon as 3P and Prone.

[plop]

Does anyone have the rulebooks to shooting prone 3P and biathlon?

[Doyle]

http://usashooting.org/rulebook.php

[weilers]

Well, depending on where you're located, and where you're going to shoot, you can, in theory, use the same rifle. I do both NRA/ISSF Smallbore and 3P events, as well as Summer Biathlon.

As far as Summer Biathlon is concerned, the Savage Mark II FVT is one of the preferred choices. While I can't speak for West Coast, the overwhelming majority of East Coast Summer events allow for (and readily use) the Savage Mark II FVT. I know it's done in PA and NJ. If you go beyond local/regional events, however, you will need to do something about the weight. If you replace the factory plastic stock with a wood stock (such as a Boyd's), then bed it with something like Plastic Steel, you're good to go. If you do buy a wood stock, and you're so inclined, you can add an Anschutz rail on the underside of the foreend.

I've shot NRA Smallbore events with the Savage Mark II FVT. I have a magazine plug that fits in the well, as well as a palm rest I made that slides over the magazine release. When that's in place, there's no question to the judges about the possibility of me switching over to using a magazine. With the Anschutz rail and a nice handstop, you can do well with the Savage in NRA 3P and Prone events.

I don't know if you can do ISSF events with a Savage Mark II. There are experts on this site far more expert than I am when it comes to ISSF.

That leaves us with Winter Biathlon. For Winter Biathlon, you don't really have many choices. You can go with the Izhmash or the Anschutz 1827. The Anschutz 1827, with the Fortner Action, is your only real out of box choice. Unlike Summer Biathlon, you're going to be moving with the rifle in Winter Biathlon; no Summer Biathlon discipline (5k running, cycling, orienteering) allows you to leave the range with the gun. With that said, I think the 1827 is your only viable option. Unless the Izhmash has been customized by one of the two recognized Biathlon shops (Larsen in Norway or Altius in the US), you have a gun which simply won't work reliably below ~25 F. It's worth noting that Anschutz supplies the Russian Biathlon Team despite the fact Izhmash is a Russian company. If you're thinking about a used Winter Biathlon gun, I can only say good luck, because I've been trying to find one for two years now. Having come to the sport recently myself I've learned that Biathlon is something you just stay with over time.

Overall, if you want to do NRA 3P, Prone, and Summer Biathlon, the Savage Mark II FVT is probably your best bet. With a quality wood stock, Anschutz rail, enough magazines for Summer Biathlon, and a handstop, you can get into the Savage for around $500 or so.

[SRichieR]

"Magazine well and palmrest" for Savage II FVT - please send pics! And, where can I get some for our junior club rifles??????

SamR

[flemingpo]

Thanks for these question and answers on different competition. I am looking for one competition rifles, as it should be light in weight and also shoots up to long distance. I searches for them and found [url=hhttp://www.centralscrewproducts.com/detroit-gu ... ion-rifles]competition rifles[/url] all things.

[pdurben]

I was on the junior national biathlon team back in the mid 1980s, but also shot NRA position and prone competitions. I used an Anschutz 1827 biathlon rifle for everything (winter biathlon, summer biathlon, and NRA type smallbore competitions). Granted that was over 25 years ago, but that rifle worked great for all of those. It was the bolt action one (the Fortner one was not yet created then).

There were no rule problems for biathlon. But the only potential rules that I thought might be issues in the NRA/international type shooting were the front sight snow cover (when opened, it extends beyond the barrel), the peg hook, and using a clip. Also, I had to remove the carrying harness for the NRA type competitions. For the old international standard rifle rules nothing could extend beyond the barrel, you couldn't use a hook, and I'm not sure if you could preload a clip (single loading was OK). But I never had any issues using that rifle in NRA sanctioned competitions. As far as I can tell from a quick scan of the current ISSF rule book, .22 caliber international standard rifle specific rules don't exist any more. So my old 1827 should be legal, but you might want to check that with USA Shooting. Unless you have Olympic aspirations, the bolt action Anschutz biathlon rifle would be a good choice. I don't know how hard it is to find one, but they should be quite a bit less expensive than the Fortner version.

But like I said, I did this over 25 years ago...

[Levergun59]

Buy an Ismash 7-3 or 7-4 depending on your size. This rifle will do all these well. I bought a Biathlon Basic for my sons 10 years ago. That rifle would group 1/4" at 50 yds with R-50 ammo. It never grouped larger than 3/4" with any cheap fodder. I rebuilt it into a 7-3 and it shot well at -5* F with the Basic barrel which is a little larger diameter than the 7-3 barrel. I think a new 7-4 is $1800.00 with sights and an Anchutz at $2900 without sights. Guns America had an Anschutz fortner for sale a few weeks ago for 2 grand with sights. I posted it in the Biathlon section. That was a good deal. My son shoots this rifle in 3p and prone with the cuff sling for practice. He shoots a little better with his Walther but that is mostly because of his MEC sling on the Walther. I bloop tubed the 7-3 so sighting plane is similar to the Walther. Triggers on the Ismash rifles are supurb 2 stage with a crisp break. Its not a Walther trigger, but it is very good. Altius can supply you with all the goods. Hope this helps.
Chris

[Conotocarious]

Well, depending on where you're located, and where you're going to shoot, you can, in theory, use the same rifle. I do both NRA/ISSF Smallbore and 3P events, as well as Summer Biathlon.

As far as Summer Biathlon is concerned, the Savage Mark II FVT is one of the preferred choices. While I can't speak for West Coast, the overwhelming majority of East Coast Summer events allow for (and readily use) the Savage Mark II FVT. I know it's done in PA and NJ. If you go beyond local/regional events, however, you will need to do something about the weight. If you replace the factory plastic stock with a wood stock (such as a Boyd's), then bed it with something like Plastic Steel, you're good to go. If you do buy a wood stock, and you're so inclined, you can add an Anschutz rail on the underside of the foreend.

I've shot NRA Smallbore events with the Savage Mark II FVT. I have a magazine plug that fits in the well, as well as a palm rest I made that slides over the magazine release. When that's in place, there's no question to the judges about the possibility of me switching over to using a magazine. With the Anschutz rail and a nice handstop, you can do well with the Savage in NRA 3P and Prone events.

I don't know if you can do ISSF events with a Savage Mark II. There are experts on this site far more expert than I am when it comes to ISSF.

That leaves us with Winter Biathlon. For Winter Biathlon, you don't really have many choices. You can go with the Izhmash or the Anschutz 1827. The Anschutz 1827, with the Fortner Action, is your only real out of box choice. Unlike Summer Biathlon, you're going to be moving with the rifle in Winter Biathlon; no Summer Biathlon discipline (5k running, cycling, orienteering) allows you to leave the range with the gun. With that said, I think the 1827 is your only viable option. Unless the Izhmash has been customized by one of the two recognized Biathlon shops (Larsen in Norway or Altius in the US), you have a gun which simply won't work reliably below ~25 F. It's worth noting that Anschutz supplies the Russian Biathlon Team despite the fact Izhmash is a Russian company. If you're thinking about a used Winter Biathlon gun, I can only say good luck, because I've been trying to find one for two years now. Having come to the sport recently myself I've learned that Biathlon is something you just stay with over time.

Overall, if you want to do NRA 3P, Prone, and Summer Biathlon, the Savage Mark II FVT is probably your best bet. With a quality wood stock, Anschutz rail, enough magazines for Summer Biathlon, and a handstop, you can get into the Savage for around $500 or so.

Hi, new here but had to register to ask this specific question. Why would the Savage Mark II not be suitable for WINTER biathlon? Or would it? Thanks!

[bberg7794]

I have a friend who shoots at our club using a Savage MKII FVT for our winter 4P and prone league. After our last match of the spring, he was considering modifying his MKII to help in our discipline. I remembered reading of a few people who modified their MKII's for biathlon and told him I would send him the information. This is what I sent:

Cotton web sling:

http://store.rwvaappleseed.com/page13.html

Stocks:

These guys make the biathlon stock for your rifle-it looks really cool-they also upgrade your sights. Eastern Sierra Armory offers stocks in three sizes:

http://www.easternsierraarmory.com/blog/?page_id=246

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=29620


OR-Replace with Savage laminated BTVS stock?

http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/RimfireStocks.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/298176 ... d-laminate


Someone did a lot of work to this one:

http://photo.net/photodb/presentation?p ... _id=568618

The Savage FVT, if modified to biathlon specs. like Eastern Sierra Armory's version, will certainly get you shooting in biathlon and NRA 3P, 4P and prone and let you gain some experience. You can specialize later down the road, if you choose to. It is one option that is available.

Our club also bought three used Marlin 2000's that were purchased from a local biathlon club. You could try to find a used one of these too.

Enjoy,

Brian