Using Bullseye for 9mm target loads - powder too fast?

[Leon]

I've been testing some target loads for a Sig 9mm with 125gr lead projectiles.

With a charge weight if 3.5 or 3.8 gr of Bullsye, I've noticed some leading for about an inch in the bore just after the chamber.

I'm wondering if this is due to the Bullseye igniting all at once and slightly melting the base of the lead projectile?

Would I be better off using a slower powder such as 231?

[Spencer]

I used the 'original' Bullseye with 5% tin alloyed lead projectiles in a #59 S&W 9mm for 20+ years without any leading in the barrel. Given that the 'new' Bullseye is considered a smidgen slower than the original, I doubt the powder is the problem.

In my pistol, 3.5gr Bullseye with 125gr cast projectiles over Winchester SPP gave me a consistent 125+ power factor (usually 127) and 10-ring accuracy at 50 yards

[Leon]

Thanks for the response Spencer - the 9mm projectiles in question are soft-ish swaged ones. Maybe too soft?

Another question - I notice that the gun ( SIG P210 newly imported from Switzerland ) groups in the 6/7 ring at 10 o clock. Is this a sign of too little powder, too much or too light or heavy projectile?

[Rover]

I'm assuming you don't have one of the adjustable sight models, but you probably could get the sights.

Otherwise you would want to try a lighter bullet to shoot lower. It might take care of the windage as well.

A favorite .38 Special load uses a 148 grain wadcutter with 2.5 to 3.0 grains of Bullseye and it works well to 50 yards so reducing your load may also work, but you may want to try a different bullet first.

[Spencer]

Thanks for the response Spencer - the 9mm projectiles in question are soft-ish swaged ones. Maybe too soft?

Another question - I notice that the gun ( SIG P210 newly imported from Switzerland ) groups in the 6/7 ring at 10 o clock. Is this a sign of too little powder, too much or too light or heavy projectile?

Most (not all) swaged projectiles are straight lead (goes through the swaging dies much easier). I did run about 5000 swaged Keith-shaped projectiles at one time without problems, but my home cast 125RN were less expensive (another cheapskate pistol shooter, but at the time I was routinely putting 400-500 rounds a week through the 9mm).

Back to the chase: maybe I was lucky with the barrel in my S&W, but leading was never a problem.

Lower velocity might, or might not, give a higher print on the target rather than lower. It's all tied up with the angle of the barrel when the projectile come out - factor in recoil and your particular hold on the pistol...

(I think Rover might be referring to the P240 rather than the P210)

[David M]

I shoot a P210-5LS and I use .357 dia projectiles with enlarged dies. The 210 is intended for jacketed projectiles and measures .3565 dia and 1/10 twist, so even as a 9mm I use .357 and get less leading.

115g SWC polymer coated, 3.8g bullseye, averages 1110 fps, factor 127.
120g SWC polymer coated, 3.5g bullseye, averages 1020 fps, factor 122.
Bullseye powder is to fast for anything over 120g, so for anything heavier try a slower powder WSF, AP-70 etc.
These are for a 6" barrel, for a 5" barrel you may need to go up in powder a little.

[zeleny]

Other than its intended RUAG Pistolen Patrone 41, SIG P210 does better with 147 grain bullets.

http://larvatus.livejournal.com/tag/p210

[David M]

I agree the 147 fmg do better but in our service competitions we can only use lead projectiles, and I can not get the cast 140-148g to shoot well at 50 yds.

[zeleny]

The standard barrel of the P210, rifled with a right hand twist, nominally measuring 1 turn in 250mm, is not meant to stabilize lead bullets. SIG also manufactured barrels with rifling specially designed for lead bullets, with a slower twist rate of 1 turn in 500mm, as a drop-in option to fit any P210 irrespectively of its variation. You can sometimes find a factory Bleilauf on Egun.de. Aftermarket barrels claimed to accommodate lead projectiles are readily available.

[Leon]

I do have both - P210s with 'nomal' barrels- and P210-5s with 'lead' barrels ( bleilauf)

I presume that a lead projectile that works well with the 'nomal' barrel will work even better with the 'lead' barrel?

[JamesH]

The standard barrel of the P210, rifled with a right hand twist, nominally measuring 1 turn in 250mm, is not meant to stabilize lead bullets. SIG also manufactured barrels with rifling specially designed for lead bullets, with a slower twist rate of 1 turn in 500mm, as a drop-in option to fit any P210 irrespectively of its variation. You can sometimes find a factory Bleilauf on Egun.de. Aftermarket barrels claimed to accommodate lead projectiles are readily available.

Not heard this before, my Browning worked fine with lead bullets.

I would think swaged bullets are just too soft for 9mm velocities.