question for Eric U

[Albert B]

Eric,
on Benchrest Central I read you are designing a new action. As a 3P ISSF shooter (in the Netherlands) I am intersted in knowing what youre personal preference is for testing ammo and what you think the best procedure is (clamped in vice, from a rest, from the shoulder etc.)
Do you tune the ammo to the rifle, the rifle to the ammo etc.

Thanks for sharing your knoledge.
Albert B.
The Netherlands

[Eric U]

For .22 rifle testing, I start with it in a clamped fixture, but with the barreled action in the stock. After sorting out what ammo looks decent, I then shoot it off of a bench with a scope. Then I test what looks good there out of the shoulder with iron sights. I NEVER just go straight from the clamped fixture into a match. There is too much information you still need before putting match bullets down range.

Eric

[WesternGrizzly]

eric are you going to start selling your action anytime soon?

[Eric U]

Soon is a relative term. I thought I would have some done by now, but my shooting and training schedule has been so busy lately that I haven't been spending much time in the shop. I've got all the stuff I need to make them, but not enough time. At the rate I'm going it will probably be fall before I have some ready.

Eric

[Albert B]

Eric,
can you give us some insight on how many hours you and your teammates spent on training (per day or per week) for smallbore at top level?
For example: dry firing, live firing on the range, physical training, testing rifle/ammo, mental training etc.

Thanks,
Albert B
(The Netherlands)

[Eric U]

My training varies by the time of year and what matches are coming up. Typical pre match routine for me is ~3 hours a day shooting, maybe 1/2-1 hour of physical training. 5-6 days a week. This is for 3p. Prone only would be much less actual shooting time.

For off-season training, I probably shoot less than half as much as I wrote above.

I don't test my rifle that often, but I guess I would guess 4-hours, two times a year. Others on the team test a lot more than I do.

We also use SCATT, but more in the winter months.

For the guys who train a lot of air, you can just add that to the smallbore totals.

Eric U

[guidolastra]

I then shoot it off of a bench with a scope

Sorry about the dumb question, but I have to ask: why testing again off abench with a scope, why not to directly go to test the ammo "on the shoulder" ?

[Eric U]

Not a dumb question.

I forgot to mention that the testing off the bench and out of the fixture are both done indoors.

I test off the bench with a scope because that is a little more precise and controlled than iron sights out of the shoulder. It is also a better test of the rifle/ammo combo because having the stock rigidly clamped affects the system vibrations when a shot is fired, and in rimfire shooting vibrations are everything. So, shooting off the bench with scope is closer to what shooting out of the shoulder acts like, but not exactly. That is why it is still important to shoot and test the rifle in the exact configuration you will be using in competition.

Eric U

[guidolastra]

Thanks, Eric . I appreciate your sound comments.

[Tzed250]

.


I just finished watching Eric shoot the Benning prone finals on ISSF.TV, and then read his interview here on Pilkguns. Absolutely great stuff!!!!

If you haven't read the interview, take the time to check it out as it is full of great info and insight.

See it here:

http://www.pilkguns.com/intug.shtml

Thanks Eric...and congratulations!!!


.

[Albert B]

Eric,
How do you go about with the torque of the bedding bolts. From your answers I assume you use only 1 torque setting (5Nm???) and then test ammo to match that torque???
Also I saw on the pictures of the WC that you use a wooden stock. Do you experience any influence in the spread of the groups because of difference of air humidity and/or difference in temperature???
Pesonally I tighten the bolts shortly before the match to the correct torque. Do you do that also, or do you set the torque only once and leave it there???

Thanks,
Albert B
(The Netherlands)

[Eric U]

Albert,

Torque of bedding screws requires the same testing as ammo selection. Test for best ammo first, then test the torque with that best ammo. It does make a difference. I use 25 in-lbs, but every gun is different.

If you are re-torquing your bedding screws before every shoot you are asking for problems. If you have a pillar bedded rifle or use an aluminum stock, just torque it and leave it. At least on an Anschutz, if you torque every day eventually you will pull out the front screw threads from your action. It has happened to many many 19 and 18 series actions. The front of the action is softer to allow the pressed in barrel. That softer metal will wear out if you are torquing every day. If you only have wood between the screws and the action, you will have other issues, like effects of humidity and temperature. Trying to compensate for that by torquing every day results in the other problems noted above.

I use a glass and pillar bedded Anschutz 1913 stock. I've tried aluminum and wouldn't go back in their present form.

Eric

[Albert B]

Eric,
I use a Walther GX-1, bought in 1980. After aprox 80000 shots it is still capable of 12 to 14mm groups using Lapua Pistol King. It has a wooden stock and I torque only before a match, not before training (2 times/week). I found that it is very sensitive to air humidity.
I have never encountered problems with torquing or the treads, as long as the torque stays within normal range. (aprox 5Nm)
As I do not have the resources (financial and time) to test different lotnumbers at the factory or with a special rig, I test ammo from a frontrest with iron sights. I use an Anschutz torquewrench and have added a dial around the circomference with 0.04Nm marks. That way I can torque to very precise force, and have found that a change of 0.02Nm torque can result in groups of 12mm instead of 20mm (CC) or larger. This way it is possible to tune the rifle to the ammo instead of tuning the ammo to the rifle. It is the same principle but aproaching it from an other angle.

Aprox 12 years ago I was for 1 season a member of the Dutch National Smallbore Rifle Team and have shot matches in Pilzen and Dortmund. I had the oppertunity to meet and shoot against several top-shooters. (In Pilzen I shot prone (587/600) 8 points lower than the winning score (595/500) and ended at place 95!).
During trainingsessions I watched shooters like Hubert Bichler (that year second at the Olympics shooting prone) Silvia Sperber and others. I learned much from them.
Thank you very much for your kind and honoust reply's. It is much appreciated.

Good luck with your shooting and your rifle design.

Albert B
(The Netherlands)

[PaulB]

I can verify what Eric said about stripping the front bedding screw. After about 30 years of torquing every time I shot, to about 35 inch-pounds, the front bedding screw of my 14 series action stripped in the middle of the prone matches at Camp Perry. Ten Ring was able to do a temporary fix and got me back in business in a couple hours.

[Blind Kiwi]

Great results Eric; the action looks a beauty now I've seen it fitted
Wish I'd gone the Sydney and seen it in the flesh

Now the tricky bit ... production