Hi everyone. I've been reading the forum for a while now, and finally mustered the courage to ask a rather basic (and often-asked) question...
For whatever reason, I think my modified BuckMark is holding me back.
I've never seen/held a pistol like a Morini or Feinwerkbau and there are no dealers in my area. Can I assume these Olympic pistols are significantly better than a modified (Nill grips, trigger job, red dot) BuckMark Target? The eye-watering price is intimidating, but they really look like fantastic pieces of craftsmanship.
Also, would it be sacrilege to install a red dot on a Morini for bullseye? Does somebody make a weaver rail for a CM22? Is a pistol like the Morini the wrong tool for bullseye?
Thanks for your thoughts on this subject.
First post - another "should I upgrade?" question
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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kevinweiho
- Posts: 949
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
- Location: Costa Rica, Central America
"should I upgrade?" question
Goose:
You cannot compare a BuckMark Target with a Morini or FWB.
The latter two are modern marvels and are light years ahead of the Browning...
If you're into bullseye, either two would make an excellent choice.
Kevho
Airgun aficionado from Costa Rica, C.A.
You cannot compare a BuckMark Target with a Morini or FWB.
The latter two are modern marvels and are light years ahead of the Browning...
If you're into bullseye, either two would make an excellent choice.
Kevho
Airgun aficionado from Costa Rica, C.A.
If you think your Buckmark is holding you back, it is - just like everything else you think about negatively.
The Pardini SP in its various iterations is by far the most popular Europistol among Bullseye shooters. Hammerli, Benelli, Walther, FWB and Morini follow in roughly that order (at least in this part of the country). There are also a lot of fans of the now unavailable Baikal Izh-35. I suspect the FWB would be more popular if it weren't for the price. FWIW I've never seen a Morini CM22 in the flesh.
The Pardini SP and Walther GSP have been around for a long time (I bought my first Pardini USED in 1991), and they are often to be found used for substantially less than the cost of a new one. Would you consider pre-owned?
No Bullseye shooter would ever give you any grief for mounting a red dot on the pistol of your choice. And if you want to get in contact with a big chunk of the Bullseye community, consider getting on the BullseyeL mail list.
The Pardini SP in its various iterations is by far the most popular Europistol among Bullseye shooters. Hammerli, Benelli, Walther, FWB and Morini follow in roughly that order (at least in this part of the country). There are also a lot of fans of the now unavailable Baikal Izh-35. I suspect the FWB would be more popular if it weren't for the price. FWIW I've never seen a Morini CM22 in the flesh.
The Pardini SP and Walther GSP have been around for a long time (I bought my first Pardini USED in 1991), and they are often to be found used for substantially less than the cost of a new one. Would you consider pre-owned?
No Bullseye shooter would ever give you any grief for mounting a red dot on the pistol of your choice. And if you want to get in contact with a big chunk of the Bullseye community, consider getting on the BullseyeL mail list.
Thanks for your replies, guys.
I've bought other used firearms with mixed results. Although I wouldn't rule out a used purchase, at these prices it would depend on the situation.
To be honest, I think my "problem" is like a golfer with a new club; every duffer imagines that the latest "wonder club" will chop ten strokes off their game. With a Morini (the one that I'm drawn to), I have this image in my mind of an ultra-smooth trigger coupled with superb balance. Part of the thrill of owning one of these pistols, I imagine, is admiring how well they're designed/built.
I understand that practice is a much cheaper way to an improved score, but these European pistols look sooo nice...
I've bought other used firearms with mixed results. Although I wouldn't rule out a used purchase, at these prices it would depend on the situation.
To be honest, I think my "problem" is like a golfer with a new club; every duffer imagines that the latest "wonder club" will chop ten strokes off their game. With a Morini (the one that I'm drawn to), I have this image in my mind of an ultra-smooth trigger coupled with superb balance. Part of the thrill of owning one of these pistols, I imagine, is admiring how well they're designed/built.
I understand that practice is a much cheaper way to an improved score, but these European pistols look sooo nice...
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Jose Rossy
- Posts: 414
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- Location: Troy, Ohio, USA
I think the key point is that you recognize that ultimately skill improvement equals score improvement.
Without the skill, the most perfect firearm will not make a dime's worth of difference. But the most skilled shooter will be held back from his true potential by a substandard firearm.
So buy the most accurate pistol that you can afford. But do so with both eyes open knowing that now you need to improve to match your arm's performance since you are now the sole limiting factor.
Without the skill, the most perfect firearm will not make a dime's worth of difference. But the most skilled shooter will be held back from his true potential by a substandard firearm.
So buy the most accurate pistol that you can afford. But do so with both eyes open knowing that now you need to improve to match your arm's performance since you are now the sole limiting factor.
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little_doodie
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:12 am
- Location: Easton, ma
A match gun takes the "my gun is holding me back " out of your mind and some of your reasoning is true.
it will have a much better trigger, It should have a better feeling grip, the ballance should be good and the reliability should be very good.
It's not going to be a miricle too though... you need to do your job with trigger control , sight allignment and follow through.
I would want to shoot one first.
go to a few matches and if you see a gun you like talk to the owner and I would guess if he would let you at least hold it.
it will have a much better trigger, It should have a better feeling grip, the ballance should be good and the reliability should be very good.
It's not going to be a miricle too though... you need to do your job with trigger control , sight allignment and follow through.
I would want to shoot one first.
go to a few matches and if you see a gun you like talk to the owner and I would guess if he would let you at least hold it.
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Lilly
Going from a club use Buckmark to a FWB aw93 was worth a good 15 points or so to me purely from the smoother trigger and superior shot to shot recoil in the 10 seconds series. When you squeeze of a good shot with the 93 and really feel the rhythm, personally I think its worth the investment. I'd call it a Yen experience. Other brands also of course.
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Guest
shoot what ya got!
Dear Goose:
I have had a unique experience that might help you in the situation you face. I shoot a Baikal IZH 35M that was plagued with the dreaded doubling and tripling problems and had it worked on in the shop quite a number of times before it was resolved. While my pistol was being worked on, my teammates let me use their pistols until mine was available. I had the opportunity to shoot a couple hammerli's, a FWB, a pardini, a Marble conversion 1911, a model 41, and tricked out brownings and rugers in competition. What I have found is that the way to keep my score high is through practice. It would take a while for me to become familliar with each firearms trigger untill I was competent and it did not matter which gun I used, I needed to be familliar with the trigger. I figure that I can master any reasonably decent trigger and its not the arrow that finds the bullseye, its not the bow that shoots the arrow that finds the bullseye, the injun is the critical component of the arrow hitting the bullseye.
I did some ammo testing with my firearm and to do so, I mounted a 7 power pistol scope and set the targets up at fifty feet with a good rest on the concrete bench at the range. while this quickly identified a couple of good ammo types, what surprised me was how accurate this handgun is off a rest with the improved clarity of a 7 power scope. 10 round into a nickle is the accuracy of my gun and that was limited by my ability to line up the cross hairs. I put the red dot back on and the group size increased to a quarter or so but what I confirmed was that any deficiencies in my bullseye scores are not a result of the accuracy of my firearm. What this did was made me confidant in the ability of my firearm and any fliers in competition I know are a result of operator error.
If I thought that a $2500 dollar gun would buy me five or ten points a match, I would go out and buy a $2,500.00 gun. Unfortunatly, the only way to improve by five points in bullseye is practice.
Regards,
Cranky
I have had a unique experience that might help you in the situation you face. I shoot a Baikal IZH 35M that was plagued with the dreaded doubling and tripling problems and had it worked on in the shop quite a number of times before it was resolved. While my pistol was being worked on, my teammates let me use their pistols until mine was available. I had the opportunity to shoot a couple hammerli's, a FWB, a pardini, a Marble conversion 1911, a model 41, and tricked out brownings and rugers in competition. What I have found is that the way to keep my score high is through practice. It would take a while for me to become familliar with each firearms trigger untill I was competent and it did not matter which gun I used, I needed to be familliar with the trigger. I figure that I can master any reasonably decent trigger and its not the arrow that finds the bullseye, its not the bow that shoots the arrow that finds the bullseye, the injun is the critical component of the arrow hitting the bullseye.
I did some ammo testing with my firearm and to do so, I mounted a 7 power pistol scope and set the targets up at fifty feet with a good rest on the concrete bench at the range. while this quickly identified a couple of good ammo types, what surprised me was how accurate this handgun is off a rest with the improved clarity of a 7 power scope. 10 round into a nickle is the accuracy of my gun and that was limited by my ability to line up the cross hairs. I put the red dot back on and the group size increased to a quarter or so but what I confirmed was that any deficiencies in my bullseye scores are not a result of the accuracy of my firearm. What this did was made me confidant in the ability of my firearm and any fliers in competition I know are a result of operator error.
If I thought that a $2500 dollar gun would buy me five or ten points a match, I would go out and buy a $2,500.00 gun. Unfortunatly, the only way to improve by five points in bullseye is practice.
Regards,
Cranky
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Guest
The last two posts raise secondary issues about shooting a better score. Practice is essential, there is no debate over that. Everyone, whatever pistol they use, needs lots of practice.
However, this topic is whether second tier target pistols hold a shooter back from doing as well as they can.
The answer is an emphatic YES.
The top tier match pistols (European) are in a higher class than Rugers and Buckmarks and the like, and it is suggested you try one out, or even try a top air pistol (Steyr, Morini, Feinwerkbau, Pardini etc). It really will lift your game, and give you that confidence that any score short of perfect is because of you rather than the pistol.
I recommend you buy and use a top .22 standard pistol, and I guarantee that it will change the way you see, handle and shoot all your pistols (whatever calibre), and positively influence your future purchasing decisions.
From an ISSF shooter.
However, this topic is whether second tier target pistols hold a shooter back from doing as well as they can.
The answer is an emphatic YES.
The top tier match pistols (European) are in a higher class than Rugers and Buckmarks and the like, and it is suggested you try one out, or even try a top air pistol (Steyr, Morini, Feinwerkbau, Pardini etc). It really will lift your game, and give you that confidence that any score short of perfect is because of you rather than the pistol.
I recommend you buy and use a top .22 standard pistol, and I guarantee that it will change the way you see, handle and shoot all your pistols (whatever calibre), and positively influence your future purchasing decisions.
From an ISSF shooter.
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melchloboo
- Posts: 209
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Guest
Ditto - I have learnt how to shoot with European match pistols, and the skills learnt, including skills such as not releasing the shot or any series of shots unless I know I am on target, has resulted in being able to pick up my 1911 or 9mm and drill shots into the black on target at 25m with confidence and ease, and I can see where the sights are pointing, with the group formed.
Get a match pistol.
Get a match pistol.
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David Levene
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